Miscellanous problems with Microstation

[quaylar]

Hi all!

I am currently working on Microstation V7.0 /J
for the first time, and as a formerly Autocad
User there are several things completly new
and unusual to me in Microstation. Some of the
problems i encountered i was able to solve
with the MS-help file and google groups.

But still there are some questions - basics
and more complex things - i dont understand.

Let me state that i searched the archives and
the online help before posting here :)

Well, first of all:

1) I am not able to find out what this /J
means in the version name? wtf? i read about
SE versions, and i searched mirostation´s
website, but still i dont know what /J means??

2) Levels: Well, i am used to following:

I create new Layers in Autocad, assign colors,
line types and line weight, and when i pick
them to be the active layer, the drawn lines
do have the attributes i assigned to the
layers.
Not so in MS: I opened Level manager and
assigned color/line type and -weight to 1 of
the layers. But whenever i am changing the
active layer to the one i configured,
microstation will still use the attributes of
the former layer, and not switch attributes.
WHY?? i really dont understand this.

3) snap points: (old question - i know, i
found lots of threads about this :)

I realize that there is no such thing as
Autosnap as in Autocad - except for the new
V8.0, or using Quick-Snap which i havent tried
so far.
But another thing that is extremly annoying:

Whenever u want to snap to a special point in
Autocat, u get this small rectangle, the
desired snap point has to be within this
rectangle to be snapped. That makes snapping a
lot easier because u dont have to hit the snap
point exactly.
In MS u dont get this small rectangle - all u
get is a cross with which u have to hit the
snap point, more or less accurate. This means
for me i always have to try to get the
tentative point 3-4 times until i get it.
Is there no way to get such a small rectangle
like in ACAD to make snapping easier?
What i am missing also are the dynamic
direction vectors drawn automatically by
autocad when u are constructing. Is there no
such thing - or compareable - for MS?.

Well, thats it so far - i am sure to come up
with more in the next few days, but so far i
would be very glad i u guys could help me out
with some useful tips.
I am working with MS since monday now, and i
have been extremly frustrated about things i
am used to do in acad in 10 secs, taking 5mins
now in microstation to figure out :)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cheers,

quaylar

[Dave Preston]

MicroStation started with version Numbers, then Changed - 3, 4, 5 95 (1995),
SE (Special Edition) J (Java support), then V8. V8 started at 8.0m then 8.1,
and the latest is V8 2004. The file format never changed until V8.

Prior to V8 MicroStation used a maximum 64 levels, which were numbers and
had no attributes. It did have level symbology, a bit like AutoCAD but it
was either globally on or off.

V8 now has bylevel attributes, like AutoCAD's bylayer and a level has
attributes of color, style and weight like AutoCAD.

As you have realised, AccuSnap did not arrive until V8. Before that you use
the Tentative button (usually configured to the middle mouse button / wheel
click). If you are careful where you pick with Tentative, you can usually
get it first time - Don't pick on the end of a line, as long as you have the
cursor over the line it will snap to the nearest end of the line. This
assumes you are using Keypoint snap and the 'snap divisor' (set in the full
locks dialog) is set to 1. With this set to 2 midpoints will also be snapped
to, if set to 3, 1/3's will be snapped etc. This makes the keypoint snap
very versatile.

--

Regards
Dave Preston


"quaylar" <cherok@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1103_1090438041@news.ycn.com...

Hi all!

I am currently working on Microstation V7.0 /J
for the first time, and as a formerly Autocad
User there are several things completly new
and unusual to me in Microstation. Some of the
problems i encountered i was able to solve
with the MS-help file and google groups.

But still there are some questions - basics
and more complex things - i dont understand.

Let me state that i searched the archives and
the online help before posting here :)

Well, first of all:

1) I am not able to find out what this /J
means in the version name? wtf? i read about
SE versions, and i searched mirostation´s
website, but still i dont know what /J means??

2) Levels: Well, i am used to following:

I create new Layers in Autocad, assign colors,
line types and line weight, and when i pick
them to be the active layer, the drawn lines
do have the attributes i assigned to the
layers.
Not so in MS: I opened Level manager and
assigned color/line type and -weight to 1 of
the layers. But whenever i am changing the
active layer to the one i configured,
microstation will still use the attributes of
the former layer, and not switch attributes.
WHY?? i really dont understand this.

3) snap points: (old question - i know, i
found lots of threads about this :)

I realize that there is no such thing as
Autosnap as in Autocad - except for the new
V8.0, or using Quick-Snap which i havent tried
so far.
But another thing that is extremly annoying:

Whenever u want to snap to a special point in
Autocat, u get this small rectangle, the
desired snap point has to be within this
rectangle to be snapped. That makes snapping a
lot easier because u dont have to hit the snap
point exactly.
In MS u dont get this small rectangle - all u
get is a cross with which u have to hit the
snap point, more or less accurate. This means
for me i always have to try to get the
tentative point 3-4 times until i get it.
Is there no way to get such a small rectangle
like in ACAD to make snapping easier?
What i am missing also are the dynamic
direction vectors drawn automatically by
autocad when u are constructing. Is there no
such thing - or compareable - for MS?.

Well, thats it so far - i am sure to come up
with more in the next few days, but so far i
would be very glad i u guys could help me out
with some useful tips.
I am working with MS since monday now, and i
have been extremly frustrated about things i
am used to do in acad in 10 secs, taking 5mins
now in microstation to figure out :)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cheers,

quaylar

[quaylar]

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:45:49 GMT, "Dave
Preston" <dave@davidcpreston.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Dave, thanks alot for your quick response,

MicroStation started with version Numbers,
then Changed - 3, 4, 5 95 (1995),
SE (Special Edition) J (Java support), then
V8. V8 started at 8.0m then 8.1,
and the latest is V8 2004. The file format
never changed until V8.

Well - if i click "About Microstation" under
"Help" it says Version 7.0.1 something..
so no SE, 95 or something else.
Nevertheless i can -somehow- set a /J
parameter to start MS. So i think i do have
the java version.

Prior to V8 MicroStation used a maximum 64
levels, which were numbers and
had no attributes. It did have level
symbology, a bit like AutoCAD but it
was either globally on or off.

Hm - that i something i dont understand.
So u mean its not possible to assign exact
attributes to each layer?
That means i do have to set all the attributes
everytime again when i choose another level as
active level?

V8 now has bylevel attributes, like
AutoCAD's bylayer and a level has
attributes of color, style and weight like
AutoCAD.

Hm, that is exactly what i am searching for in
/J

As you have realised, AccuSnap did not
arrive until V8.

Ahm - how come there is indeed a feature
called AccuSnap in my Version of
Microstation??? I can activate it which
results in a small window displaying the
x/y coordinates, i can use it to lock x-y axis
and so on..

Before that you use

the Tentative button (usually configured to
the middle mouse button / wheel
click). If you are careful where you pick
with Tentative, you can usually
get it first time - Don't pick on the end of
a line, as long as you have the
cursor over the line it will snap to the
nearest end of the line. This
assumes you are using Keypoint snap and the
'snap divisor' (set in the full
locks dialog) is set to 1. With this set to
2 midpoints will also be snapped
to, if set to 3, 1/3's will be snapped etc.
This makes the keypoint snap
very versatile.

Hm, the hint with the snap divisor seems to be
a good one, i already read about this, but
didnt set the snap divisor yet, always used
"C" to snap to the center..

Hmm, thanks again dave, hope u can bring some
more light to my remaining questions ;)

greets,

qu

[quaylar]

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:32:24 GMT, "Dave
Preston" <dave@davidcpreston.co.uk> wrote:

MS/J is version 7.

ahh - ok :)

Setting a level in versions prior to V8 does
not change the attributes. It
is like working with AutoCAD but without
having the bylayer option.

*argh* its a shame there is no feature like
the bylayer option..
But tell me - what is the dialog box for
setting layer attributes good for? if you
cant use it - there is no sense for it???
If you have to edit all the attributes
everytime u change the active layer theres no
need to be able to set the attributes in the
layer manager..confusing for me..

You are confusing AccuDraw (which is in
MS/J) which helps co-ordinate input
with AccuSnap which gives you AutoCAD like
snapping, which was not available
until V8.

Ah - yes you are right, i was confusing
AccuDraw with AccuSnap..thats it.

Leaving the snap divisor as 1 and using "C',
which is an AccuDraw shortcut
keyin for 'center' works well. You could
also try opening the snap button
bar and using the snaps on that to override
keypoint snap. KeyPoint snap
combines many of AutoCAD's snaps. It will
snap to the ends of lines, centre
and quadrants of circles, insertion point of
text and cells etc. In cases
where it may give ambiguous results a
combination of awareness of where the
mouse is when you use Tentative and using
manual snap overrides with either
shortcut keyins (like "C") and selecting
from the snap toolbar usually
result in a first pick unambiguous snap. If
it is ambiguous a second
Tentative will probably give a correct
result.

Oh yes, i already use the snap toolbar, as i
do have it in AutoCad too - always visible.

One big benefit over AutoCAD is that even
without using tentative, if you
accidentally pick the wrong element a Reset
(right mouse click) will toggle
round other elements near the cursor. This
can be achieved by going into
toggle mode with [Ctrl]+Left Mouse in
AutoCAD but this mode has to be exited
and I find it quite clumsy in AutoCAD.

The other big benefit in MicroStation, which
you may have realised is that a
command is active until you cancel it or
select another command which
automatically cancels the current one.

I realised this behaviour - and in fact, this
is one of the things i hate most in
Microstation.
I am used to cancel/finnish/repeat a command
with right mouse click.
Now if i want to finnish a command i have to
left click, if i want to cancel its
rightclick. I find it very uncomfortable,
especially when i want to select elements.
I am used to cancel a command with right
click, meaning "no" command is active - being
able to select elements.
Now everytime i want to select elements i do
have to switch to the "select elements"
command first.

In AutoCAD I find myself constantly

clicking the Right mouse button to repeat a
command and using the [Esc] key
to exit a command before I can do something
else.

I love this behaviour *g* maybe because i am
used to it :)

MicroStation handles virtually every setting
whilst in a command, like
changing the level you are on during placing
a linestring, whereas in
AutoCAD you usually have to exit the command
to change layer.

Hm - i didnt notice that up to now, but i am
sure u are right, i will try this.

I am a long time user of both products, and
have in fact been using AutoCAD
4 years more than MicroStation, and on
balance I prefer MicroStation.

Really? Currently i would do almost everything
to be "allowed" drawing in AutoCad again *gg*

I would urge you, if possible, to upgrade to
V8 as it has been improved
considerably over MS/J (V7). It works more
like AutoCAD and will work with
AutoCAD DWG / DXF files without translation.

Yeah - i was thinking about this too, but i am
working for a small company, and i dont think
they will spend that much money for only 1 man
working on Microstation.
Do u approximately know the costs for a
Microstation V8.0 license?

Try looking at the Bentley newsgroups on
news.viecon.com which provide a lot
more information and many more people
willing to help.

Thanks for this link! I will have a look at
it.
And many thanks for your help - bringing light
into the darkness of my AutoCad contaminated
brain *g*

cheers,

quay

[Dave Preston]

MS/J is version 7.

Setting a level in versions prior to V8 does not change the attributes. It
is like working with AutoCAD but without having the bylayer option.

You are confusing AccuDraw (which is in MS/J) which helps co-ordinate input
with AccuSnap which gives you AutoCAD like snapping, which was not available
until V8.

Leaving the snap divisor as 1 and using "C', which is an AccuDraw shortcut
keyin for 'center' works well. You could also try opening the snap button
bar and using the snaps on that to override keypoint snap. KeyPoint snap
combines many of AutoCAD's snaps. It will snap to the ends of lines, centre
and quadrants of circles, insertion point of text and cells etc. In cases
where it may give ambiguous results a combination of awareness of where the
mouse is when you use Tentative and using manual snap overrides with either
shortcut keyins (like "C") and selecting from the snap toolbar usually
result in a first pick unambiguous snap. If it is ambiguous a second
Tentative will probably give a correct result.

One big benefit over AutoCAD is that even without using tentative, if you
accidentally pick the wrong element a Reset (right mouse click) will toggle
round other elements near the cursor. This can be achieved by going into
toggle mode with [Ctrl]+Left Mouse in AutoCAD but this mode has to be exited
and I find it quite clumsy in AutoCAD.

The other big benefit in MicroStation, which you may have realised is that a
command is active until you cancel it or select another command which
automatically cancels the current one. In AutoCAD I find myself constantly
clicking the Right mouse button to repeat a command and using the [Esc] key
to exit a command before I can do something else.
MicroStation handles virtually every setting whilst in a command, like
changing the level you are on during placing a linestring, whereas in
AutoCAD you usually have to exit the command to change layer.

I am a long time user of both products, and have in fact been using AutoCAD
4 years more than MicroStation, and on balance I prefer MicroStation.

I would urge you, if possible, to upgrade to V8 as it has been improved
considerably over MS/J (V7). It works more like AutoCAD and will work with
AutoCAD DWG / DXF files without translation.

Try looking at the Bentley newsgroups on news.viecon.com which provide a lot
more information and many more people willing to help.

--

Regards
Dave Preston


"quaylar" <cherok@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1104_1090443027@news.ycn.com...

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:45:49 GMT, "Dave
Preston" <dave@davidcpreston.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Dave, thanks alot for your quick response,

MicroStation started with version Numbers,
then Changed - 3, 4, 5 95 (1995),
SE (Special Edition) J (Java support), then
V8. V8 started at 8.0m then 8.1,
and the latest is V8 2004. The file format
never changed until V8.

Well - if i click "About Microstation" under
"Help" it says Version 7.0.1 something..
so no SE, 95 or something else.
Nevertheless i can -somehow- set a /J
parameter to start MS. So i think i do have
the java version.



Prior to V8 MicroStation used a maximum 64
levels, which were numbers and
had no attributes. It did have level
symbology, a bit like AutoCAD but it
was either globally on or off.

Hm - that i something i dont understand.
So u mean its not possible to assign exact
attributes to each layer?
That means i do have to set all the attributes
everytime again when i choose another level as
active level?


V8 now has bylevel attributes, like
AutoCAD's bylayer and a level has
attributes of color, style and weight like
AutoCAD.

Hm, that is exactly what i am searching for in
/J


As you have realised, AccuSnap did not
arrive until V8.

Ahm - how come there is indeed a feature
called AccuSnap in my Version of
Microstation??? I can activate it which
results in a small window displaying the
x/y coordinates, i can use it to lock x-y axis
and so on..

Before that you use
the Tentative button (usually configured to
the middle mouse button / wheel
click). If you are careful where you pick
with Tentative, you can usually
get it first time - Don't pick on the end of
a line, as long as you have the
cursor over the line it will snap to the
nearest end of the line. This
assumes you are using Keypoint snap and the
'snap divisor' (set in the full
locks dialog) is set to 1. With this set to
2 midpoints will also be snapped
to, if set to 3, 1/3's will be snapped etc.
This makes the keypoint snap
very versatile.

Hm, the hint with the snap divisor seems to be
a good one, i already read about this, but
didnt set the snap divisor yet, always used
"C" to snap to the center..

Hmm, thanks again dave, hope u can bring some
more light to my remaining questions ;)

greets,

qu

[Daniel MacNeil]

Quaylar,

You can simulate changing symbology (attributes) when changing levels by
stringing commands together and placing them on a function key or a
custom icon.

i.e.
TO:
set level to 4
color to 3
line style to 7
weight to 3
and activate the place line command

Put this on a function key:
lv=4;co=3;lc=7;wt=3;place line constrained

Note, each command is separated by a semi-colon.

If you leave off the 'place line constrained' command at the end then
your current command will stay active but the level and symbology will
change on the fly while you are in the middle of the command.

You can access the Function Key dialog in the pulldown menus.
Workspace->Function Keys...

Dan


quaylar wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:32:24 GMT, "Dave
Preston" <dave@davidcpreston.co.uk> wrote:

MS/J is version 7.



ahh - ok :)



Setting a level in versions prior to V8 does

not change the attributes. It

is like working with AutoCAD but without

having the bylayer option.

*argh* its a shame there is no feature like
the bylayer option..
But tell me - what is the dialog box for
setting layer attributes good for? if you
cant use it - there is no sense for it???
If you have to edit all the attributes
everytime u change the active layer theres no
need to be able to set the attributes in the
layer manager..confusing for me..


You are confusing AccuDraw (which is in

MS/J) which helps co-ordinate input

with AccuSnap which gives you AutoCAD like

snapping, which was not available

until V8.


Ah - yes you are right, i was confusing
AccuDraw with AccuSnap..thats it.


Leaving the snap divisor as 1 and using "C',

which is an AccuDraw shortcut

keyin for 'center' works well. You could

also try opening the snap button

bar and using the snaps on that to override

keypoint snap. KeyPoint snap

combines many of AutoCAD's snaps. It will

snap to the ends of lines, centre

and quadrants of circles, insertion point of

text and cells etc. In cases

where it may give ambiguous results a

combination of awareness of where the

mouse is when you use Tentative and using

manual snap overrides with either

shortcut keyins (like "C") and selecting

from the snap toolbar usually

result in a first pick unambiguous snap. If

it is ambiguous a second

Tentative will probably give a correct

result.

Oh yes, i already use the snap toolbar, as i
do have it in AutoCad too - always visible.


One big benefit over AutoCAD is that even

without using tentative, if you

accidentally pick the wrong element a Reset

(right mouse click) will toggle

round other elements near the cursor. This

can be achieved by going into

toggle mode with [Ctrl]+Left Mouse in

AutoCAD but this mode has to be exited

and I find it quite clumsy in AutoCAD.

The other big benefit in MicroStation, which

you may have realised is that a

command is active until you cancel it or

select another command which

automatically cancels the current one.


I realised this behaviour - and in fact, this
is one of the things i hate most in
Microstation.
I am used to cancel/finnish/repeat a command
with right mouse click.
Now if i want to finnish a command i have to
left click, if i want to cancel its
rightclick. I find it very uncomfortable,
especially when i want to select elements.
I am used to cancel a command with right
click, meaning "no" command is active - being
able to select elements.
Now everytime i want to select elements i do
have to switch to the "select elements"
command first.

In AutoCAD I find myself constantly

clicking the Right mouse button to repeat a

command and using the [Esc] key

to exit a command before I can do something

else.

I love this behaviour *g* maybe because i am
used to it :)


MicroStation handles virtually every setting

whilst in a command, like

changing the level you are on during placing

a linestring, whereas in

AutoCAD you usually have to exit the command

to change layer.

Hm - i didnt notice that up to now, but i am
sure u are right, i will try this.


I am a long time user of both products, and

have in fact been using AutoCAD

4 years more than MicroStation, and on

balance I prefer MicroStation.

Really? Currently i would do almost everything
to be "allowed" drawing in AutoCad again *gg*


I would urge you, if possible, to upgrade to

V8 as it has been improved

considerably over MS/J (V7). It works more

like AutoCAD and will work with

AutoCAD DWG / DXF files without translation.


Yeah - i was thinking about this too, but i am
working for a small company, and i dont think
they will spend that much money for only 1 man
working on Microstation.
Do u approximately know the costs for a
Microstation V8.0 license?


Try looking at the Bentley newsgroups on

news.viecon.com which provide a lot

more information and many more people

willing to help.

Thanks for this link! I will have a look at
it.
And many thanks for your help - bringing light
into the darkness of my AutoCad contaminated
brain *g*

cheers,

quay

[Dennis Barker]

I have read your post and David's replies, but just let me add a few
thoughts in your original message below:

Dennis Barker

"quaylar" <cherok@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1103_1090438041@news.ycn.com...

Hi all!

I am currently working on Microstation V7.0 /J
for the first time, and as a formerly Autocad
User there are several things completly new
and unusual to me in Microstation. Some of the
problems i encountered i was able to solve
with the MS-help file and google groups.

But still there are some questions - basics
and more complex things - i dont understand.

Let me state that i searched the archives and
the online help before posting here :)

Well, first of all:

1) I am not able to find out what this /J
means in the version name? wtf? i read about
SE versions, and i searched mirostation´s
website, but still i dont know what /J means??

2) Levels: Well, i am used to following:

I create new Layers in Autocad, assign colors,
line types and line weight, and when i pick
them to be the active layer, the drawn lines
do have the attributes i assigned to the
layers.
Not so in MS: I opened Level manager and
assigned color/line type and -weight to 1 of
the layers. But whenever i am changing the
active layer to the one i configured,
microstation will still use the attributes of
the former layer, and not switch attributes.
WHY?? i really dont understand this.

If you are forced to be using version 7 (or /J) for the foreseeable future,
then it may be worth investigating the Settings Manager. This lets you
define level, dimension, text and multi-line settings that will be applied
when an item is chosen from the Settings Manager. This provides the
functionality you are looking for to select levels and attributes in one go.

3) snap points: (old question - i know, i
found lots of threads about this :)

I realize that there is no such thing as
Autosnap as in Autocad - except for the new
V8.0, or using Quick-Snap which i havent tried
so far.
But another thing that is extremly annoying:

Whenever u want to snap to a special point in
Autocat, u get this small rectangle, the
desired snap point has to be within this
rectangle to be snapped. That makes snapping a
lot easier because u dont have to hit the snap
point exactly.
In MS u dont get this small rectangle - all u
get is a cross with which u have to hit the
snap point, more or less accurate. This means
for me i always have to try to get the
tentative point 3-4 times until i get it.
Is there no way to get such a small rectangle
like in ACAD to make snapping easier?
What i am missing also are the dynamic
direction vectors drawn automatically by
autocad when u are constructing. Is there no
such thing - or compareable - for MS?.

Even with Accusnap in V8 I still use Tentative snaps more often. The benefit
of Tentative snaps is that you don't have to be that accurate with your
mouse, since it will pick the nearest snap point, depending on your snap
mode. And as Dave points out, if there is a few elements nearby, you can use
the reset (right button) to toggle through other elements that MS can see.
It might take a bit of getting used to, but it is well worth it for the
flexibility it gives you.

Well, thats it so far - i am sure to come up
with more in the next few days, but so far i
would be very glad i u guys could help me out
with some useful tips.
I am working with MS since monday now, and i
have been extremly frustrated about things i
am used to do in acad in 10 secs, taking 5mins
now in microstation to figure out :)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I would also suggest you spend a good few hours making sure you are familiar
with Accudraw and its shortcuts. This is a very useful and powerful tool,
especially when you add your own shortcuts. For example I have added
shortcuts to change line weight and texture on the fly. You could also add
them to change Level, Colour Texture and Weight in one go for some of your
main levels if you wanted to. The limitation is coming up with enough two
key shortcuts for them. For example you could define a shortcut for L7 with
the key-in lv=7;co=4;lc=4;wt=3 and this would set Level number 7, Colour 4,
Line Style 4 and Weight 3 - and could be used after you start to draw
without exiting the command.

cheers,

quaylar

[quaylar]

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:19:32 GMT, "Dennis
Barker" <dennis_barkerSOS@VERYhotmail.com>
wrote:

I have read your post and David's replies,
but just let me add a few
thoughts in your original message below:

If you are forced to be using version 7 (or
/J) for the foreseeable future,
then it may be worth investigating the
Settings Manager. This lets you
define level, dimension, text and multi-line
settings that will be applied
when an item is chosen from the Settings
Manager. This provides the
functionality you are looking for to select
levels and attributes in one go.

Hm - in fact i did investigate the settings
manager, indeed i already setted the levels i
use more often to the attributes i want them
to have. BUT - if i change the active level it
wont set the attributes automatically. I use
the Standard (or is it primary) toolbox to
change active level. Whenever i change level
it wont set the corresponding attributes and i
have to set them manually. (again and again an
again...argh)
Thats why i was asking about the sense of
being able to set the attributes of levels in
the settings manager if it wont switch them
when u switch level.

Even with Accusnap in V8 I still use
Tentative snaps more often. The benefit
of Tentative snaps is that you don't have to
be that accurate with your
mouse, since it will pick the nearest snap
point, depending on your snap
mode. And as Dave points out, if there is a
few elements nearby, you can use
the reset (right button) to toggle through
other elements that MS can see.
It might take a bit of getting used to, but
it is well worth it for the
flexibility it gives you.

Hm, i too think its a matter of getting used
to it, although - i didnt know about the
"toggle" thing, could be useful :)

I would also suggest you spend a good few
hours making sure you are familiar
with Accudraw and its shortcuts. This is a
very useful and powerful tool,
especially when you add your own shortcuts.
For example I have added
shortcuts to change line weight and texture
on the fly. You could also add
them to change Level, Colour Texture and
Weight in one go for some of your
main levels if you wanted to. The limitation
is coming up with enough two
key shortcuts for them. For example you
could define a shortcut for L7 with
the key-in lv=7;co=4;lc=4;wt=3 and this
would set Level number 7, Colour 4,
Line Style 4 and Weight 3 - and could be
used after you start to draw
without exiting the command.

Hm - is there a command reference of all the
commands in microstation i can use to assign
to function keys?
Is there also the possibility to assign a set
of commands - not to a function key - but a
toolbox?
btw.: why r u using function keys to change
layer+attributes if u can set it in the level
manager settings as u stated above? (which
doesnt work for me unfortunately).

thx,

quay

[Dave Preston]

1. As you have noticed levels can have a symbology assigned to them. It is
not like AutoCAD where the color, for example, can be set to bylayer. You
can assign a color, style and weight to a level and in the View Settings
turn level symbology on. The elements still have their own attributes but
turning the level symbology on and off determines whether the element
symbology or level symbology is displayed in a view. On the face of it, it
sounds good but not many people use it.

2. You can add multiple command together by placing a ";" between them:-
lv=7;co=4;lc=3
This can be assigned to a function key, a keyin in settings manager, a
toolbox button or even entered in the keyin window . One of the settings in
the Preferences 'Start in Parseall Mode' has to be set on for this to work.
You will find MicroStation is easily configurable in many ways.

The provided help gives the keyin for commands where they exist, but
MicroStation allows many shortcuts like "lv=10" instead of "active level 10"

--

Regards
Dave Preston


"quaylar" <cherok@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1106_1090470918@news.ycn.com...

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:19:32 GMT, "Dennis
Barker" <dennis_barkerSOS@VERYhotmail.com
wrote:
I have read your post and David's replies,
but just let me add a few
thoughts in your original message below:

If you are forced to be using version 7 (or
/J) for the foreseeable future,
then it may be worth investigating the
Settings Manager. This lets you
define level, dimension, text and multi-line
settings that will be applied
when an item is chosen from the Settings
Manager. This provides the
functionality you are looking for to select
levels and attributes in one go.


Hm - in fact i did investigate the settings
manager, indeed i already setted the levels i
use more often to the attributes i want them
to have. BUT - if i change the active level it
wont set the attributes automatically. I use
the Standard (or is it primary) toolbox to
change active level. Whenever i change level
it wont set the corresponding attributes and i
have to set them manually. (again and again an
again...argh)
Thats why i was asking about the sense of
being able to set the attributes of levels in
the settings manager if it wont switch them
when u switch level.


Even with Accusnap in V8 I still use
Tentative snaps more often. The benefit
of Tentative snaps is that you don't have to
be that accurate with your
mouse, since it will pick the nearest snap
point, depending on your snap
mode. And as Dave points out, if there is a
few elements nearby, you can use
the reset (right button) to toggle through
other elements that MS can see.
It might take a bit of getting used to, but
it is well worth it for the
flexibility it gives you.

Hm, i too think its a matter of getting used
to it, although - i didnt know about the
"toggle" thing, could be useful :)

I would also suggest you spend a good few
hours making sure you are familiar
with Accudraw and its shortcuts. This is a
very useful and powerful tool,
especially when you add your own shortcuts.
For example I have added
shortcuts to change line weight and texture
on the fly. You could also add
them to change Level, Colour Texture and
Weight in one go for some of your
main levels if you wanted to. The limitation
is coming up with enough two
key shortcuts for them. For example you
could define a shortcut for L7 with
the key-in lv=7;co=4;lc=4;wt=3 and this
would set Level number 7, Colour 4,
Line Style 4 and Weight 3 - and could be
used after you start to draw
without exiting the command.


Hm - is there a command reference of all the
commands in microstation i can use to assign
to function keys?
Is there also the possibility to assign a set
of commands - not to a function key - but a
toolbox?
btw.: why r u using function keys to change
layer+attributes if u can set it in the level
manager settings as u stated above? (which
doesnt work for me unfortunately).

thx,

quay

[Dennis Barker]

See Below:

"quaylar" <cherok@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1106_1090470918@news.ycn.com...

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:19:32 GMT, "Dennis
Barker" <dennis_barkerSOS@VERYhotmail.com
wrote:
I have read your post and David's replies,
but just let me add a few
thoughts in your original message below:

If you are forced to be using version 7 (or
/J) for the foreseeable future,
then it may be worth investigating the
Settings Manager. This lets you
define level, dimension, text and multi-line
settings that will be applied
when an item is chosen from the Settings
Manager. This provides the
functionality you are looking for to select
levels and attributes in one go.


Hm - in fact i did investigate the settings
manager, indeed i already setted the levels i
use more often to the attributes i want them
to have. BUT - if i change the active level it
wont set the attributes automatically. I use
the Standard (or is it primary) toolbox to
change active level. Whenever i change level
it wont set the corresponding attributes and i
have to set them manually. (again and again an
again...argh)
Thats why i was asking about the sense of
being able to set the attributes of levels in
the settings manager if it wont switch them
when u switch level.

You will have to accept that it works differently to Acad. MS is more
flexible, and doesn't force attributes. But since you are used to
inflexibility where Acad forces the attributes, it seems wrong to you - but
not to me. If you want it to work as you are used to, then close the
attributes dialog and just use the settings manager to change levels. Or
else, as Dave suggests, use level symbology to map your colour weight and
texture then it doesn't matter what symbology an element is, as long as it
is in the correct level. This is more difficult to understand though, since
autocad doesn't have this.

Even with Accusnap in V8 I still use
Tentative snaps more often. The benefit
of Tentative snaps is that you don't have to
be that accurate with your
mouse, since it will pick the nearest snap
point, depending on your snap
mode. And as Dave points out, if there is a
few elements nearby, you can use
the reset (right button) to toggle through
other elements that MS can see.
It might take a bit of getting used to, but
it is well worth it for the
flexibility it gives you.

Hm, i too think its a matter of getting used
to it, although - i didnt know about the
"toggle" thing, could be useful :)

I would also suggest you spend a good few
hours making sure you are familiar
with Accudraw and its shortcuts. This is a
very useful and powerful tool,
especially when you add your own shortcuts.
For example I have added
shortcuts to change line weight and texture
on the fly. You could also add
them to change Level, Colour Texture and
Weight in one go for some of your
main levels if you wanted to. The limitation
is coming up with enough two
key shortcuts for them. For example you
could define a shortcut for L7 with
the key-in lv=7;co=4;lc=4;wt=3 and this
would set Level number 7, Colour 4,
Line Style 4 and Weight 3 - and could be
used after you start to draw
without exiting the command.


Hm - is there a command reference of all the
commands in microstation i can use to assign
to function keys?
Is there also the possibility to assign a set
of commands - not to a function key - but a
toolbox?

Yes, you can create your own tool box with your own icons and add a command,
string of commands or run a macro. This is found in Workspace>Customise.

btw.: why r u using function keys to change
layer+attributes if u can set it in the level
manager settings as u stated above? (which
doesnt work for me unfortunately).

I don't. I gave you some examples, as did Dave. It is up to you to choose
the method that works best for you. Microstation almost gives you too many
options, so you often find different people have adopted different ways of
working. There are probably MS users who still do not use acccudraw, to the
detriment of their own productivity.

thx,

quay

[Tahimik]

quaylar <cherok@gmx.net> wrote in message news:<1106_1090470918@news.ycn.com>...

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:19:32 GMT, "Dennis
Barker" <dennis_barkerSOS@VERYhotmail.com
wrote:
I have read your post and David's replies,
but just let me add a few
thoughts in your original message below:

If you are forced to be using version 7 (or
/J) for the foreseeable future,
then it may be worth investigating the
Settings Manager. This lets you
define level, dimension, text and multi-line
settings that will be applied
when an item is chosen from the Settings
Manager. This provides the
functionality you are looking for to select
levels and attributes in one go.


Hm - in fact i did investigate the settings
manager, indeed i already setted the levels i
use more often to the attributes i want them
to have. BUT - if i change the active level it
wont set the attributes automatically. I use
the Standard (or is it primary) toolbox to
change active level. Whenever i change level
it wont set the corresponding attributes and i
have to set them manually. (again and again an
again...argh)
Thats why i was asking about the sense of
being able to set the attributes of levels in
the settings manager if it wont switch them
when u switch level.

quaylar,

You make it sounds like end of the world.
I am sure many of us prefer the way it is, the attribute is not
hostage by the level. If I want to draw a window and put in
level window, I will not draw it in boring one color, one linetype and
one thickness. What I want is I can have all the option in all the color,
show different linetype and highlight (thicken) some lines but able
to turn off all at once.

Tahimik

[quaylar]

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:54:21 GMT, Daniel
MacNeil <dandot42@shaw.ca> wrote:

Quaylar,

You can simulate changing symbology
(attributes) when changing levels by
stringing commands together and placing them
on a function key or a
custom icon.

i.e.
TO:
set level to 4
color to 3
line style to 7
weight to 3
and activate the place line command

Put this on a function key:
lv=4;co=3;lc=7;wt=3;place line constrained

Note, each command is separated by a semi-
colon.

If you leave off the 'place line
constrained' command at the end then
your current command will stay active but
the level and symbology will
change on the fly while you are in the
middle of the command.

You can access the Function Key dialog in
the pulldown menus.
Workspace->Function Keys...

Dan

Hi Dan!

I realize that this would be a solution for my
problem, although a bit complicated i think.
Would u suggest programming a function key for
each level i have to use? I think there are
currently 25 different levels i have to use,
making function keys or icons for everyone of
them would be rather complicated in my eyes...
i cant imagine that there is no easier way to
achive this...i mean...this is one thing thats
essential imho...

hmm..thx for your tip, if nobody comes up with
a easier solution i will have to try this
one...:)

greets,

qu

[quaylar]

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:44:29 GMT, "Dennis
Barker" <dennis_barkerSOS@VERYhotmail.com>
wrote:

Hm - in fact i did investigate the
settings
manager, indeed i already setted the
levels i
use more often to the attributes i want
them
to have. BUT - if i change the active
level it
wont set the attributes automatically. I
use
the Standard (or is it primary) toolbox to
change active level. Whenever i change
level
it wont set the corresponding attributes
and i
have to set them manually. (again and
again an
again...argh)
Thats why i was asking about the sense of
being able to set the attributes of levels
in
the settings manager if it wont switch
them
when u switch level.

You will have to accept that it works
differently to Acad. MS is more
flexible, and doesn't force attributes. But
since you are used to
inflexibility where Acad forces the
attributes, it seems wrong to you - but
not to me. If you want it to work as you are
used to, then close the
attributes dialog and just use the settings
manager to change levels. Or
else, as Dave suggests, use level symbology
to map your colour weight and
texture then it doesn't matter what
symbology an element is, as long as it
is in the correct level. This is more
difficult to understand though, since
autocad doesn't have this.

Hm - i dont seem to get this...i cant believe
i am that stupid.
I already used the settings manager to change
levels. I am double-clicking my desired active
level in settings manager to make it active.
Despite this - it doesnt have the attributes
which i had set in level manager before.
Hmm...it seems to me i dont understand how
level-symbology works, how can i activate it?
From your description this should be exactly
what i want...
ng used

Hm - is there a command reference of all
the
commands in microstation i can use to
assign
to function keys?
Is there also the possibility to assign a
set
of commands - not to a function key - but
a
toolbox?

Yes, you can create your own tool box with
your own icons and add a command,
string of commands or run a macro. This is
found in Workspace>Customise.

Ahh - thx for this, i will check this out..

btw.: why r u using function keys to
change
layer+attributes if u can set it in the
level
manager settings as u stated above? (which
doesnt work for me unfortunately).

I don't. I gave you some examples, as did
Dave. It is up to you to choose
the method that works best for you.
Microstation almost gives you too many
options, so you often find different people
have adopted different ways of
working. There are probably MS users who
still do not use acccudraw, to the
detriment of their own productivity.

Hm, i understand that there are always
different ways to solve problems, and i
appreciate all your suggestions, u can never
know enough :)

Regarding accudraw: is there any known issue
with smart lock?
Sometimes it simply wont work. In fact - none
of the shortcuts for Accudraw work at this
moment..
I am using Return to lock to x/y Axis, but it
wont lock - and it wont switch
polar/rectangular either - it wont recognize
any of the shortcuts - although they are
specified in the Accudraw Settings...strange.
Most of the time they work, but sometimes they
dont, and i cant reproduce it...

--qu

[quaylar]

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:21:57 GMT, "Dave
Preston" <dave@davidcpreston.co.uk> wrote:

1. As you have noticed levels can have a
symbology assigned to them. It is
not like AutoCAD where the color, for
example, can be set to bylayer. You
can assign a color, style and weight to a
level and in the View Settings
turn level symbology on. The elements still
have their own attributes but
turning the level symbology on and off
determines whether the element
symbology or level symbology is displayed in
a view. On the face of it, it
sounds good but not many people use it.

Hm - but how will it be printed? There is no
use if a line is viewed with line type 3, if
it is printed in linetype...lets say 5??


--qu

[quaylar]

quaylar,

You make it sounds like end of the world.
I am sure many of us prefer the way it is,
the attribute is not
hostage by the level. If I want to draw a
window and put in
level window, I will not draw it in boring
one color, one linetype and
one thickness. What I want is I can have all
the option in all the color,
show different linetype and highlight
(thicken) some lines but able
to turn off all at once.

Tahimik

No - its not the end of the world, i am sure
we will get to this some other day *g*

Why this is that frustrating for me is:

The company i am working for has defined a
special set of levels/layers. Each of them
stands for a special element in the drawing.
And each level has to have exactly the same
line type/color/thickness. Everywhere in the
drawing Level 26 (for instance) has to have
the same attributes.

I do not have the choice u know. This is a
standard i have to obey. And thats why i was
asking for an easy way to achieve it.
(and because i know how easy it would be in
Acad i was very surprised that there was no
obvious way for me to do it in MS..)

nevertheless, i appreciate all your helpful
tips, i am sure i will find a way using
them..:)