| Author |
Message |
Paul Calman
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:26 pm Post subject:
Some architects are twisted |
|
|
I found this on a welder's discussion group. They had an "interesting" time
building it.
http://metalworking.com/DropBox/tiltingroofline.JPG
| Quote: | "The plans were interesting in that they were highly detailed and done
with CAD. The dimensions were given to hundreths of a mm. That indicated |
to me that the draftsman didn't have a clue about initially calling for his
dimensions to be rounded off. The drawing were complete but confusing in
what they left out.
CCW and CW : the beams were twisted along their length by a custom
bending shop down the street. 1.4 degrees twist every five feet is not much
but necessary to get things so line up square and the beams meet each other.
The beams joints are slightly off square. Because it is so slight you
cannot set a protractor or bevel gauge on the joint. The only way was to
confirm the diagonals across each bay. The diagonals differed about twenty
mm or so.
There were no bolt center dimensions on any part of the print. That
mean't we had to trial bolt each adjacent framework as we fabricated it up.
Taper pins were used often because the frames were quite flexible. We
proped the frames in the skewed postion for the welders so that they didn't
weld it up sitting flat.
I still say today that I would not have liked to listen to those poor
ironworkers putting this thing together. I am sure they even invented some
new cuss words over this one.
For the privacy of the owner I will only say that the structure is being
built in the Vancouver area.
The welding was pretty straightforward however the fitting.... that is
why us fabricators make the extra couple of bucks :'))). <SNIP>
,,,there are two lines on the roof that are level. That means
there is one beam line level running across the roof and at ninety degrees
there is another. Those two lines are not in the center of the roof.
What was a real pain was a 12 inch square half inch wall tube that ran
diagonally across part of the roof. We had to cope both ends to fit the
twelve inch beams and at the same time cut to allow the tube to drop in
elevation.
The perimeter framing was twelve inch beams with the flanges cut off
until they were only two inches wide. It was like trying to work with
spagetti."
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
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| Back to top |
|
 |
Michael Bulatovich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:08 am Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
Bad drafting aside, you've gotta do stuff like this to be cool these days.
(If it ain't leaning or twisted, it's 'boring'.)
It's a low point in the architectural what's hot/what's not cycle.
--
Michael Bulatovich
-----------------------------------
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:37485iF57ftfpU1@individual.net...
| Quote: |
I found this on a welder's discussion group. They had an "interesting"
time
building it.
http://metalworking.com/DropBox/tiltingroofline.JPG
"The plans were interesting in that they were highly detailed and done
with CAD. The dimensions were given to hundreths of a mm. That indicated
to me that the draftsman didn't have a clue about initially calling for
his
dimensions to be rounded off. The drawing were complete but confusing in
what they left out.
CCW and CW : the beams were twisted along their length by a custom
bending shop down the street. 1.4 degrees twist every five feet is not
much
but necessary to get things so line up square and the beams meet each
other.
The beams joints are slightly off square. Because it is so slight you
cannot set a protractor or bevel gauge on the joint. The only way was to
confirm the diagonals across each bay. The diagonals differed about
twenty
mm or so.
There were no bolt center dimensions on any part of the print. That
mean't we had to trial bolt each adjacent framework as we fabricated it
up.
Taper pins were used often because the frames were quite flexible. We
proped the frames in the skewed postion for the welders so that they
didn't
weld it up sitting flat.
I still say today that I would not have liked to listen to those poor
ironworkers putting this thing together. I am sure they even invented
some
new cuss words over this one.
For the privacy of the owner I will only say that the structure is
being
built in the Vancouver area.
The welding was pretty straightforward however the fitting.... that
is
why us fabricators make the extra couple of bucks :'))). <SNIP
,,,there are two lines on the roof that are level. That means
there is one beam line level running across the roof and at ninety degrees
there is another. Those two lines are not in the center of the roof.
What was a real pain was a 12 inch square half inch wall tube that ran
diagonally across part of the roof. We had to cope both ends to fit the
twelve inch beams and at the same time cut to allow the tube to drop in
elevation.
The perimeter framing was twelve inch beams with the flanges cut off
until they were only two inches wide. It was like trying to work with
spagetti."
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
|
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| Back to top |
|
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clintonG
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:04 am Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
Actually, I disagree as the opportunity to have a market for expressive
architecture has always been repressed by @holes in the government and the
finance sectors claiming the expression was not safe or not salable or some
other bullsh!t. Now that some customers have enough money to not have to
give a rat's @ss a renaissance of expression is emerging.
--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:_p7Pd.32128$Ub4.1365177@news20.bellglobal.com...
| Quote: | Bad drafting aside, you've gotta do stuff like this to be cool these days.
(If it ain't leaning or twisted, it's 'boring'.)
It's a low point in the architectural what's hot/what's not cycle.
--
Michael Bulatovich
-----------------------------------
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:37485iF57ftfpU1@individual.net...
I found this on a welder's discussion group. They had an "interesting"
time
building it.
http://metalworking.com/DropBox/tiltingroofline.JPG
"The plans were interesting in that they were highly detailed and done
with CAD. The dimensions were given to hundreths of a mm. That
indicated
to me that the draftsman didn't have a clue about initially calling for
his
dimensions to be rounded off. The drawing were complete but confusing
in
what they left out.
CCW and CW : the beams were twisted along their length by a custom
bending shop down the street. 1.4 degrees twist every five feet is not
much
but necessary to get things so line up square and the beams meet each
other.
The beams joints are slightly off square. Because it is so slight you
cannot set a protractor or bevel gauge on the joint. The only way was
to
confirm the diagonals across each bay. The diagonals differed about
twenty
mm or so.
There were no bolt center dimensions on any part of the print. That
mean't we had to trial bolt each adjacent framework as we fabricated it
up.
Taper pins were used often because the frames were quite flexible. We
proped the frames in the skewed postion for the welders so that they
didn't
weld it up sitting flat.
I still say today that I would not have liked to listen to those
poor
ironworkers putting this thing together. I am sure they even invented
some
new cuss words over this one.
For the privacy of the owner I will only say that the structure is
being
built in the Vancouver area.
The welding was pretty straightforward however the fitting.... that
is
why us fabricators make the extra couple of bucks :'))). <SNIP
,,,there are two lines on the roof that are level. That means
there is one beam line level running across the roof and at ninety
degrees
there is another. Those two lines are not in the center of the roof.
What was a real pain was a 12 inch square half inch wall tube that ran
diagonally across part of the roof. We had to cope both ends to fit the
twelve inch beams and at the same time cut to allow the tube to drop in
elevation.
The perimeter framing was twelve inch beams with the flanges cut off
until they were only two inches wide. It was like trying to work with
spagetti."
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
|
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| Back to top |
|
|
CW
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:53 am Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
This kind of thinking has lead the Seattle area to have some of the ugliest
buildings on the planet.
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:_p7Pd.32128$Ub4.1365177@news20.bellglobal.com...
| Quote: | Bad drafting aside, you've gotta do stuff like this to be cool these days.
(If it ain't leaning or twisted, it's 'boring'.)
It's a low point in the architectural what's hot/what's not cycle.
--
Michael Bulatovich
-----------------------------------
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:37485iF57ftfpU1@individual.net...
I found this on a welder's discussion group. They had an "interesting"
time
building it.
http://metalworking.com/DropBox/tiltingroofline.JPG
"The plans were interesting in that they were highly detailed and done
with CAD. The dimensions were given to hundreths of a mm. That
indicated
to me that the draftsman didn't have a clue about initially calling for
his
dimensions to be rounded off. The drawing were complete but confusing
in
what they left out.
CCW and CW : the beams were twisted along their length by a custom
bending shop down the street. 1.4 degrees twist every five feet is not
much
but necessary to get things so line up square and the beams meet each
other.
The beams joints are slightly off square. Because it is so slight you
cannot set a protractor or bevel gauge on the joint. The only way was
to
confirm the diagonals across each bay. The diagonals differed about
twenty
mm or so.
There were no bolt center dimensions on any part of the print. That
mean't we had to trial bolt each adjacent framework as we fabricated it
up.
Taper pins were used often because the frames were quite flexible. We
proped the frames in the skewed postion for the welders so that they
didn't
weld it up sitting flat.
I still say today that I would not have liked to listen to those
poor
ironworkers putting this thing together. I am sure they even invented
some
new cuss words over this one.
For the privacy of the owner I will only say that the structure is
being
built in the Vancouver area.
The welding was pretty straightforward however the fitting.... that
is
why us fabricators make the extra couple of bucks :'))). <SNIP
,,,there are two lines on the roof that are level. That means
there is one beam line level running across the roof and at ninety
degrees
there is another. Those two lines are not in the center of the roof.
What was a real pain was a 12 inch square half inch wall tube that ran
diagonally across part of the roof. We had to cope both ends to fit the
twelve inch beams and at the same time cut to allow the tube to drop in
elevation.
The perimeter framing was twelve inch beams with the flanges cut off
until they were only two inches wide. It was like trying to work with
spagetti."
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
|
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| Back to top |
|
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Paul Calman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:24 am Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
As a guy who works with metal, I think it's an interesting project. It would
have a problem with snowloads here though.
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Michael Bulatovich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:31 am Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
Expression is not what it's all about, and
governments are the biggest buyer of
trendy expressionism. (They don't work for their money.)
"clintonG" <csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:5_9Pd.13050$w75.5339@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
| Quote: | Actually, I disagree as the opportunity to have a market for expressive
architecture has always been repressed by @holes in the government and the
finance sectors claiming the expression was not safe or not salable or
some
other bullsh!t. Now that some customers have enough money to not have to
give a rat's @ss a renaissance of expression is emerging.
--
%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:_p7Pd.32128$Ub4.1365177@news20.bellglobal.com...
Bad drafting aside, you've gotta do stuff like this to be cool these
days.
(If it ain't leaning or twisted, it's 'boring'.)
It's a low point in the architectural what's hot/what's not cycle.
--
Michael Bulatovich
-----------------------------------
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:37485iF57ftfpU1@individual.net...
I found this on a welder's discussion group. They had an "interesting"
time
building it.
http://metalworking.com/DropBox/tiltingroofline.JPG
"The plans were interesting in that they were highly detailed and
done
with CAD. The dimensions were given to hundreths of a mm. That
indicated
to me that the draftsman didn't have a clue about initially calling
for
his
dimensions to be rounded off. The drawing were complete but confusing
in
what they left out.
CCW and CW : the beams were twisted along their length by a
custom
bending shop down the street. 1.4 degrees twist every five feet is
not
much
but necessary to get things so line up square and the beams meet each
other.
The beams joints are slightly off square. Because it is so slight you
cannot set a protractor or bevel gauge on the joint. The only way was
to
confirm the diagonals across each bay. The diagonals differed about
twenty
mm or so.
There were no bolt center dimensions on any part of the print.
That
mean't we had to trial bolt each adjacent framework as we fabricated
it
up.
Taper pins were used often because the frames were quite flexible. We
proped the frames in the skewed postion for the welders so that they
didn't
weld it up sitting flat.
I still say today that I would not have liked to listen to those
poor
ironworkers putting this thing together. I am sure they even invented
some
new cuss words over this one.
For the privacy of the owner I will only say that the structure is
being
built in the Vancouver area.
The welding was pretty straightforward however the fitting....
that
is
why us fabricators make the extra couple of bucks :'))). <SNIP
,,,there are two lines on the roof that are level. That means
there is one beam line level running across the roof and at ninety
degrees
there is another. Those two lines are not in the center of the roof.
What was a real pain was a 12 inch square half inch wall tube that ran
diagonally across part of the roof. We had to cope both ends to fit
the
twelve inch beams and at the same time cut to allow the tube to drop
in
elevation.
The perimeter framing was twelve inch beams with the flanges cut
off
until they were only two inches wide. It was like trying to work with
spagetti."
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
|
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|
| Back to top |
|
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clintonG
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
Oh, I'm glad to learn your narrow minded opinion has become the arbitor of
good taste.
That must be why most 'architecture' in Canada looks like a barn from
Wisconsin ;-)
<%= Clinton Gallagher
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:sVdPd.33877$Ub4.1444513@news20.bellglobal.com...
| Quote: | Expression is not what it's all about, and
governments are the biggest buyer of
trendy expressionism. (They don't work for their money.)
"clintonG" <csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:5_9Pd.13050$w75.5339@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Actually, I disagree as the opportunity to have a market for expressive
architecture has always been repressed by @holes in the government and
the
finance sectors claiming the expression was not safe or not salable or
some
other bullsh!t. Now that some customers have enough money to not have to
give a rat's @ss a renaissance of expression is emerging.
--
%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:_p7Pd.32128$Ub4.1365177@news20.bellglobal.com...
Bad drafting aside, you've gotta do stuff like this to be cool these
days.
(If it ain't leaning or twisted, it's 'boring'.)
It's a low point in the architectural what's hot/what's not cycle.
--
Michael Bulatovich
-----------------------------------
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:37485iF57ftfpU1@individual.net...
I found this on a welder's discussion group. They had an
"interesting"
time
building it.
http://metalworking.com/DropBox/tiltingroofline.JPG
"The plans were interesting in that they were highly detailed and
done
with CAD. The dimensions were given to hundreths of a mm. That
indicated
to me that the draftsman didn't have a clue about initially calling
for
his
dimensions to be rounded off. The drawing were complete but
confusing
in
what they left out.
CCW and CW : the beams were twisted along their length by a
custom
bending shop down the street. 1.4 degrees twist every five feet is
not
much
but necessary to get things so line up square and the beams meet
each
other.
The beams joints are slightly off square. Because it is so slight
you
cannot set a protractor or bevel gauge on the joint. The only way
was
to
confirm the diagonals across each bay. The diagonals differed about
twenty
mm or so.
There were no bolt center dimensions on any part of the print.
That
mean't we had to trial bolt each adjacent framework as we fabricated
it
up.
Taper pins were used often because the frames were quite flexible.
We
proped the frames in the skewed postion for the welders so that they
didn't
weld it up sitting flat.
I still say today that I would not have liked to listen to those
poor
ironworkers putting this thing together. I am sure they even
invented
some
new cuss words over this one.
For the privacy of the owner I will only say that the structure
is
being
built in the Vancouver area.
The welding was pretty straightforward however the fitting....
that
is
why us fabricators make the extra couple of bucks :'))). <SNIP
,,,there are two lines on the roof that are level. That means
there is one beam line level running across the roof and at ninety
degrees
there is another. Those two lines are not in the center of the
roof.
What was a real pain was a 12 inch square half inch wall tube that
ran
diagonally across part of the roof. We had to cope both ends to fit
the
twelve inch beams and at the same time cut to allow the tube to drop
in
elevation.
The perimeter framing was twelve inch beams with the flanges cut
off
until they were only two inches wide. It was like trying to work
with
spagetti."
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clintonG
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
I like your thinking Paul but I don't see how there could be any concerns
with snow loads. The assembly almost looks like its members are too heavy
with framed interstitials left open for natural lighting or not fully
assembled when the photo was taken. In any event, the modeling for these
types of structures is now quite straight forward thanks to finite element
analysis software. Cutting and any machining of members is similarly
automated leaving the labor of assembly to be little more than a
paint-by-number process.
This particular project is best expressed in its structure that IMO once
veneered will lose much of its wonder anyway.
Now if somebody wants to argue 'twisted' they should take a look at
Calatrava's recent 'calaclaptrap' condo project [1] noting this referral is
not the best photo I could find right away.
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
[1] http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/arts/architecture/10183/
"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:37546tF589vgrU1@individual.net...
| Quote: | As a guy who works with metal, I think it's an interesting project. It
would
have a problem with snowloads here though.
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Michael Bulatovich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:34 am Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
My opinion is not in ascendance here in Canada or anywhere else at the
moment,
and cannot be blamed for the state of any architecture but my own, and even
that
has to be taken in context. That's my problem with Mr. Crystal or Mr. Blob:
they always do the same thing no matter what site, client, context, budget,
or program.
They'll talk about context until your eyes glaze over, but the buildings are
pretty much
the same. That tells me they're perpetually on their 'greatest hits'
tour.......
Further, architecture in an urban context is a CIVIC art (my opinion again).
To me that means
demonstrating understanding of the place and the culture, including it's
history,
iconography etc., never mind the more private concern for functionality, An
"expression above all" attitude doesn't worry itself about any of that.
The worst thing about it is that as it becomes de rigeur, the less than
clever start to
copy the expressionist work of others and usually end up making a mess of
it, so they
don't even get that right, and the city is stuck with the cursed thing for a
generation or two.
As for why architecture is moving where it seems to be, I think new
technology has a lot to do with it,
but expressionism, and stuff like it, has come and gone many times through
history. It's a cycle.
Once the excesses of it are plain to a new generation of practitioners, I'll
bet you see the
other polarity of reason, or something posing as that, will be back. Then
they will go too far.......
and on it goes.
Lastly, if your idea of Canadian architecture is that it's all, or even
largely, barn-like,
you obviously need to get to some big cities or at least look at some books.
I suggest a
weekend in Toronto. The current Canadian "look" is much more 'modern' than
the
average American fare these days. (My opinion again.) I'd be happy to show
you some
as long as you buy the beer. (We have pretty good beer up here too.)
"clintonG" <csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:jfpPd.16396$0h5.5106@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
| Quote: | Oh, I'm glad to learn your narrow minded opinion has become the arbitor of
good taste.
That must be why most 'architecture' in Canada looks like a barn from
Wisconsin ;-)
%= Clinton Gallagher
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:sVdPd.33877$Ub4.1444513@news20.bellglobal.com...
Expression is not what it's all about, and
governments are the biggest buyer of
trendy expressionism. (They don't work for their money.)
"clintonG" <csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in
message
news:5_9Pd.13050$w75.5339@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Actually, I disagree as the opportunity to have a market for
expressive
architecture has always been repressed by @holes in the government and
the
finance sectors claiming the expression was not safe or not salable or
some
other bullsh!t. Now that some customers have enough money to not have
to
give a rat's @ss a renaissance of expression is emerging.
--
%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:_p7Pd.32128$Ub4.1365177@news20.bellglobal.com...
Bad drafting aside, you've gotta do stuff like this to be cool these
days.
(If it ain't leaning or twisted, it's 'boring'.)
It's a low point in the architectural what's hot/what's not cycle.
--
Michael Bulatovich
-----------------------------------
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:37485iF57ftfpU1@individual.net...
I found this on a welder's discussion group. They had an
"interesting"
time
building it.
http://metalworking.com/DropBox/tiltingroofline.JPG
"The plans were interesting in that they were highly detailed
and
done
with CAD. The dimensions were given to hundreths of a mm. That
indicated
to me that the draftsman didn't have a clue about initially
calling
for
his
dimensions to be rounded off. The drawing were complete but
confusing
in
what they left out.
CCW and CW : the beams were twisted along their length by a
custom
bending shop down the street. 1.4 degrees twist every five feet
is
not
much
but necessary to get things so line up square and the beams meet
each
other.
The beams joints are slightly off square. Because it is so slight
you
cannot set a protractor or bevel gauge on the joint. The only way
was
to
confirm the diagonals across each bay. The diagonals differed
about
twenty
mm or so.
There were no bolt center dimensions on any part of the print.
That
mean't we had to trial bolt each adjacent framework as we
fabricated
it
up.
Taper pins were used often because the frames were quite flexible.
We
proped the frames in the skewed postion for the welders so that
they
didn't
weld it up sitting flat.
I still say today that I would not have liked to listen to
those
poor
ironworkers putting this thing together. I am sure they even
invented
some
new cuss words over this one.
For the privacy of the owner I will only say that the
structure
is
being
built in the Vancouver area.
The welding was pretty straightforward however the fitting....
that
is
why us fabricators make the extra couple of bucks :'))). <SNIP
,,,there are two lines on the roof that are level. That means
there is one beam line level running across the roof and at ninety
degrees
there is another. Those two lines are not in the center of the
roof.
What was a real pain was a 12 inch square half inch wall tube that
ran
diagonally across part of the roof. We had to cope both ends to
fit
the
twelve inch beams and at the same time cut to allow the tube to
drop
in
elevation.
The perimeter framing was twelve inch beams with the flanges
cut
off
until they were only two inches wide. It was like trying to work
with
spagetti."
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clintonG
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:43 am Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
I sure need to get out more often even if it meant I bought the beers :-)
BTW -- its probably going to make you feel like a neophyte (like it did me)
but I finally learned I should just resize the OE newsreader window to a
comfortable width and type until word wrap kicked in rather than continuing
to guess where a wrap would/should occur by hard coding carriage returns
which all too often resulted in line breaks in the middle of a sentence as
your last reply shows.
<%= Clinton Gallagher
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:aFuPd.35352$Ub4.1629070@news20.bellglobal.com...
| Quote: | My opinion is not in ascendance here in Canada or anywhere else at the
moment,
and cannot be blamed for the state of any architecture but my own, and
even
that
has to be taken in context. That's my problem with Mr. Crystal or Mr.
Blob:
they always do the same thing no matter what site, client, context,
budget,
or program.
They'll talk about context until your eyes glaze over, but the buildings
are
pretty much
the same. That tells me they're perpetually on their 'greatest hits'
tour.......
Further, architecture in an urban context is a CIVIC art (my opinion
again).
To me that means
demonstrating understanding of the place and the culture, including it's
history,
iconography etc., never mind the more private concern for functionality,
An
"expression above all" attitude doesn't worry itself about any of that.
The worst thing about it is that as it becomes de rigeur, the less than
clever start to
copy the expressionist work of others and usually end up making a mess of
it, so they
don't even get that right, and the city is stuck with the cursed thing for
a
generation or two.
As for why architecture is moving where it seems to be, I think new
technology has a lot to do with it,
but expressionism, and stuff like it, has come and gone many times through
history. It's a cycle.
Once the excesses of it are plain to a new generation of practitioners,
I'll
bet you see the
other polarity of reason, or something posing as that, will be back. Then
they will go too far.......
and on it goes.
Lastly, if your idea of Canadian architecture is that it's all, or even
largely, barn-like,
you obviously need to get to some big cities or at least look at some
books.
I suggest a
weekend in Toronto. The current Canadian "look" is much more 'modern' than
the
average American fare these days. (My opinion again.) I'd be happy to show
you some
as long as you buy the beer. (We have pretty good beer up here too.)
"clintonG" <csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:jfpPd.16396$0h5.5106@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Oh, I'm glad to learn your narrow minded opinion has become the arbitor
of
good taste.
That must be why most 'architecture' in Canada looks like a barn from
Wisconsin ;-)
%= Clinton Gallagher
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:sVdPd.33877$Ub4.1444513@news20.bellglobal.com...
Expression is not what it's all about, and
governments are the biggest buyer of
trendy expressionism. (They don't work for their money.)
"clintonG" <csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in
message
news:5_9Pd.13050$w75.5339@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Actually, I disagree as the opportunity to have a market for
expressive
architecture has always been repressed by @holes in the government
and
the
finance sectors claiming the expression was not safe or not salable
or
some
other bullsh!t. Now that some customers have enough money to not
have
to
give a rat's @ss a renaissance of expression is emerging.
--
%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:_p7Pd.32128$Ub4.1365177@news20.bellglobal.com...
Bad drafting aside, you've gotta do stuff like this to be cool
these
days.
(If it ain't leaning or twisted, it's 'boring'.)
It's a low point in the architectural what's hot/what's not cycle.
--
Michael Bulatovich
-----------------------------------
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:37485iF57ftfpU1@individual.net...
I found this on a welder's discussion group. They had an
"interesting"
time
building it.
http://metalworking.com/DropBox/tiltingroofline.JPG
"The plans were interesting in that they were highly detailed
and
done
with CAD. The dimensions were given to hundreths of a mm. That
indicated
to me that the draftsman didn't have a clue about initially
calling
for
his
dimensions to be rounded off. The drawing were complete but
confusing
in
what they left out.
CCW and CW : the beams were twisted along their length by a
custom
bending shop down the street. 1.4 degrees twist every five feet
is
not
much
but necessary to get things so line up square and the beams meet
each
other.
The beams joints are slightly off square. Because it is so
slight
you
cannot set a protractor or bevel gauge on the joint. The only
way
was
to
confirm the diagonals across each bay. The diagonals differed
about
twenty
mm or so.
There were no bolt center dimensions on any part of the
print.
That
mean't we had to trial bolt each adjacent framework as we
fabricated
it
up.
Taper pins were used often because the frames were quite
flexible.
We
proped the frames in the skewed postion for the welders so that
they
didn't
weld it up sitting flat.
I still say today that I would not have liked to listen to
those
poor
ironworkers putting this thing together. I am sure they even
invented
some
new cuss words over this one.
For the privacy of the owner I will only say that the
structure
is
being
built in the Vancouver area.
The welding was pretty straightforward however the
fitting....
that
is
why us fabricators make the extra couple of bucks :'))). <SNIP
,,,there are two lines on the roof that are level. That means
there is one beam line level running across the roof and at
ninety
degrees
there is another. Those two lines are not in the center of the
roof.
What was a real pain was a 12 inch square half inch wall tube
that
ran
diagonally across part of the roof. We had to cope both ends to
fit
the
twelve inch beams and at the same time cut to allow the tube to
drop
in
elevation.
The perimeter framing was twelve inch beams with the flanges
cut
off
until they were only two inches wide. It was like trying to
work
with
spagetti."
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Michael Bulatovich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Some architects are twisted |
|
|
It's a habit.
"clintonG" <csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:XDvPd.16597$0h5.10837@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
| Quote: | I sure need to get out more often even if it meant I bought the beers :-)
BTW -- its probably going to make you feel like a neophyte (like it did
me)
but I finally learned I should just resize the OE newsreader window to a
comfortable width and type until word wrap kicked in rather than
continuing
to guess where a wrap would/should occur by hard coding carriage returns
which all too often resulted in line breaks in the middle of a sentence as
your last reply shows.
%= Clinton Gallagher
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:aFuPd.35352$Ub4.1629070@news20.bellglobal.com...
My opinion is not in ascendance here in Canada or anywhere else at the
moment,
and cannot be blamed for the state of any architecture but my own, and
even
that
has to be taken in context. That's my problem with Mr. Crystal or Mr.
Blob:
they always do the same thing no matter what site, client, context,
budget,
or program.
They'll talk about context until your eyes glaze over, but the buildings
are
pretty much
the same. That tells me they're perpetually on their 'greatest hits'
tour.......
Further, architecture in an urban context is a CIVIC art (my opinion
again).
To me that means
demonstrating understanding of the place and the culture, including it's
history,
iconography etc., never mind the more private concern for functionality,
An
"expression above all" attitude doesn't worry itself about any of that.
The worst thing about it is that as it becomes de rigeur, the less than
clever start to
copy the expressionist work of others and usually end up making a mess
of
it, so they
don't even get that right, and the city is stuck with the cursed thing
for
a
generation or two.
As for why architecture is moving where it seems to be, I think new
technology has a lot to do with it,
but expressionism, and stuff like it, has come and gone many times
through
history. It's a cycle.
Once the excesses of it are plain to a new generation of practitioners,
I'll
bet you see the
other polarity of reason, or something posing as that, will be back.
Then
they will go too far.......
and on it goes.
Lastly, if your idea of Canadian architecture is that it's all, or even
largely, barn-like,
you obviously need to get to some big cities or at least look at some
books.
I suggest a
weekend in Toronto. The current Canadian "look" is much more 'modern'
than
the
average American fare these days. (My opinion again.) I'd be happy to
show
you some
as long as you buy the beer. (We have pretty good beer up here too.)
"clintonG" <csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in
message
news:jfpPd.16396$0h5.5106@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Oh, I'm glad to learn your narrow minded opinion has become the
arbitor
of
good taste.
That must be why most 'architecture' in Canada looks like a barn from
Wisconsin ;-)
%= Clinton Gallagher
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:sVdPd.33877$Ub4.1444513@news20.bellglobal.com...
Expression is not what it's all about, and
governments are the biggest buyer of
trendy expressionism. (They don't work for their money.)
"clintonG" <csgallagher@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in
message
news:5_9Pd.13050$w75.5339@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Actually, I disagree as the opportunity to have a market for
expressive
architecture has always been repressed by @holes in the government
and
the
finance sectors claiming the expression was not safe or not
salable
or
some
other bullsh!t. Now that some customers have enough money to not
have
to
give a rat's @ss a renaissance of expression is emerging.
--
%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:_p7Pd.32128$Ub4.1365177@news20.bellglobal.com...
Bad drafting aside, you've gotta do stuff like this to be cool
these
days.
(If it ain't leaning or twisted, it's 'boring'.)
It's a low point in the architectural what's hot/what's not
cycle.
--
Michael Bulatovich
-----------------------------------
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:37485iF57ftfpU1@individual.net...
I found this on a welder's discussion group. They had an
"interesting"
time
building it.
http://metalworking.com/DropBox/tiltingroofline.JPG
"The plans were interesting in that they were highly
detailed
and
done
with CAD. The dimensions were given to hundreths of a mm.
That
indicated
to me that the draftsman didn't have a clue about initially
calling
for
his
dimensions to be rounded off. The drawing were complete but
confusing
in
what they left out.
CCW and CW : the beams were twisted along their length by
a
custom
bending shop down the street. 1.4 degrees twist every five
feet
is
not
much
but necessary to get things so line up square and the beams
meet
each
other.
The beams joints are slightly off square. Because it is so
slight
you
cannot set a protractor or bevel gauge on the joint. The only
way
was
to
confirm the diagonals across each bay. The diagonals differed
about
twenty
mm or so.
There were no bolt center dimensions on any part of the
print.
That
mean't we had to trial bolt each adjacent framework as we
fabricated
it
up.
Taper pins were used often because the frames were quite
flexible.
We
proped the frames in the skewed postion for the welders so
that
they
didn't
weld it up sitting flat.
I still say today that I would not have liked to listen to
those
poor
ironworkers putting this thing together. I am sure they even
invented
some
new cuss words over this one.
For the privacy of the owner I will only say that the
structure
is
being
built in the Vancouver area.
The welding was pretty straightforward however the
fitting....
that
is
why us fabricators make the extra couple of bucks :'))).
SNIP
,,,there are two lines on the roof that are level. That means
there is one beam line level running across the roof and at
ninety
degrees
there is another. Those two lines are not in the center of
the
roof.
What was a real pain was a 12 inch square half inch wall tube
that
ran
diagonally across part of the roof. We had to cope both ends
to
fit
the
twelve inch beams and at the same time cut to allow the tube
to
drop
in
elevation.
The perimeter framing was twelve inch beams with the
flanges
cut
off
until they were only two inches wide. It was like trying to
work
with
spagetti."
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
|
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|
|
|
|
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