| Author |
Message |
Jay
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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It sounds like you may be the only one working on all disciplines in a project. But if you have a project with multiple
disciplines having to coordinate their work and reference your plan, then multiple tabs means that your model will have
entities that the rest of the disciplines don't want to have to sort through.
"John Michalik" <johnm@weissereng.com> wrote in message news:420cc0ef$1_3@newsprd01...
| Quote: | I agree with O.C. on the layouts, missed that the first time around. If I'm
doing a simple architectural plan, I will reference my floor plan into a
clean drawing, in that drawing I may put all of my electrical, plumbing,
hvac, etc. Then I have a separate tab in that one drawing for each of the
plan set sheets. It works nicely most times as changes to one of those
items can affect the others and I don't have to jump around all over the
place to make sure I got it all. |
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John Michalik
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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| Quote: | The important part is having a layer
system that lends flexibility to the drawing, defined by it's intended
use. |
AMEN. Man, before I got tasked with revamping everything around here. We
had one layer for text. It was called TEXT, imagine that. Now, imagine
doing a civil plan with a survey as a base map and trying to manipulate that
!@$#^$ monster so that you can see what you need and ONLY what you need.
Not gonna happen. Same with linework. Turn off the 'TOPO' layer in an
older drawing and guess what. 95% of the drawing disappear! ARGH!!! Yeah,
there were only a few layers in the whole drawing (lean by definition), but
for crying out loud, you couldn't use the file. We know have a template
with layers defined for each item and utility, with most layers having a
layer for lineworks, one for blocks, and another for text. Everyone griped
at first, funny part was civil did the most griping and it had the most
benefit to them, but now it has become pretty popular. Our template has a
lot of layers, but when you are done, purge the little sucker, and poof
instant small drawing. In my opinion, layering and xrefs just about go hand
in hand since one of the many big advantages to an xref is the additional
layer control it affords you.
--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards
johnm@weissereng.com
"Matt" <jeg2dsign@(removethis)earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:420cc570$1_1@newsprd01...
| Quote: | This is sort of what Im leaning towards as well....
using xrefs instead of many layers
You obviously don't want an unecessarily bloated file however you will
have
as many layers as you need. Using xref's won't cut down on your layers,
your xreffed layers come in also. The important part is having a layer
system that lends flexibility to the drawing, defined by it's intended
use.
Matt
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John Michalik
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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No, not actually. We are divided up into a department for each discipline
basically, although it is not uncommon for one person to work across the
lines. My example below is by no means a hard track or the only way, but
for example: I draw up the floor plan, a guy from civil will take that
plan and reference it into a clean drawing. In that drawing he may have
multiple tabs, one for paving/grading, one for the site plan, etc, depending
on the size and complexity. I will take a copy of that plan, reference it
into a clean drawing and create my wall layouts, roof plan, reflected
ceiling plan, etc. in one drawing, multiple tabs. Myself or someone else,
may take that same floor plan and create the plumbing, electrical, hvac,
etc. One base drawing, multiple users, few files as possible, multiple
plans. It's all divided up into groups, rather than necessarily people.
I'm not going to have one guy laying in all the plumbing and another guy
laying in all the electrical and so on. That's just inefficient. As far as
sorting through multiple entities, if I reference in a drawing, I get the
model, not the tabs, yes there may be some other layers they don't need, but
a few well designed layer states, and planning up front makes it a matter of
a couple of clicks to get where you need to be. This is just something that
works well in most cases for us. I'm not trying to tell O.P. that that is
what he needs to be doing, just that it is one thought.
--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards
johnm@weissereng.com
"Jay" <Jay@dev.nul> wrote in message news:420cc6a0$1_2@newsprd01...
| Quote: | It sounds like you may be the only one working on all disciplines in a
project. But if you have a project with multiple
disciplines having to coordinate their work and reference your plan, then
multiple tabs means that your model will have
entities that the rest of the disciplines don't want to have to sort
through.
"John Michalik" <johnm@weissereng.com> wrote in message news:420cc0ef$1_3@
newsprd01...
I agree with O.C. on the layouts, missed that the first time around. If
I'm
doing a simple architectural plan, I will reference my floor plan into a
clean drawing, in that drawing I may put all of my electrical, plumbing,
hvac, etc. Then I have a separate tab in that one drawing for each of
the
plan set sheets. It works nicely most times as changes to one of those
items can affect the others and I don't have to jump around all over the
place to make sure I got it all.
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melanie stone
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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my peev on mech and plumb drawings is that all of the text is on one
layer...
I can turn off all of piping layers that I don't need to see, but, I still
have all of the text for every other type of pipe cluttering up the junk
having to trace down and make sure you have the right note...
so, you need it simple, yes, but, still enough details to be clear...
"John Michalik" <johnm@weissereng.com> wrote in message
news:420cc842$1_1@newsprd01...
| Quote: | The important part is having a layer
system that lends flexibility to the drawing, defined by it's intended
use.
AMEN. Man, before I got tasked with revamping everything around here. We
had one layer for text. It was called TEXT, imagine that. Now, imagine
doing a civil plan with a survey as a base map and trying to manipulate
that
!@$#^$ monster so that you can see what you need and ONLY what you need.
Not gonna happen. Same with linework. Turn off the 'TOPO' layer in an
older drawing and guess what. 95% of the drawing disappear! ARGH!!! Yeah,
there were only a few layers in the whole drawing (lean by definition),
but
for crying out loud, you couldn't use the file. We know have a template
with layers defined for each item and utility, with most layers having a
layer for lineworks, one for blocks, and another for text. Everyone
griped
at first, funny part was civil did the most griping and it had the most
benefit to them, but now it has become pretty popular. Our template has a
lot of layers, but when you are done, purge the little sucker, and poof
instant small drawing. In my opinion, layering and xrefs just about go
hand
in hand since one of the many big advantages to an xref is the additional
layer control it affords you.
--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards
johnm@weissereng.com
"Matt" <jeg2dsign@(removethis)earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:420cc570$1_1@newsprd01...
This is sort of what Im leaning towards as well....
using xrefs instead of many layers
You obviously don't want an unecessarily bloated file however you will
have
as many layers as you need. Using xref's won't cut down on your layers,
your xreffed layers come in also. The important part is having a layer
system that lends flexibility to the drawing, defined by it's intended
use.
Matt
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John Michalik
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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Right, and that's what I was getting at, the new standard we've implemented
goes a long way to achieving what you are talking about, for us at least.
You may need more than that, or less.
--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards
johnm@weissereng.com
"melanie stone" <mes0945@bjc.org> wrote in message
news:420ccbb3_2@newsprd01...
| Quote: | my peev on mech and plumb drawings is that all of the text is on one
layer...
I can turn off all of piping layers that I don't need to see, but, I still
have all of the text for every other type of pipe cluttering up the junk
having to trace down and make sure you have the right note...
so, you need it simple, yes, but, still enough details to be clear...
"John Michalik" <johnm@weissereng.com> wrote in message
news:420cc842$1_1@newsprd01...
The important part is having a layer
system that lends flexibility to the drawing, defined by it's intended
use.
AMEN. Man, before I got tasked with revamping everything around here.
We
had one layer for text. It was called TEXT, imagine that. Now, imagine
doing a civil plan with a survey as a base map and trying to manipulate
that
!@$#^$ monster so that you can see what you need and ONLY what you need.
Not gonna happen. Same with linework. Turn off the 'TOPO' layer in an
older drawing and guess what. 95% of the drawing disappear! ARGH!!!
Yeah,
there were only a few layers in the whole drawing (lean by definition),
but
for crying out loud, you couldn't use the file. We know have a template
with layers defined for each item and utility, with most layers having a
layer for lineworks, one for blocks, and another for text. Everyone
griped
at first, funny part was civil did the most griping and it had the most
benefit to them, but now it has become pretty popular. Our template has
a
lot of layers, but when you are done, purge the little sucker, and poof
instant small drawing. In my opinion, layering and xrefs just about go
hand
in hand since one of the many big advantages to an xref is the
additional
layer control it affords you.
--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards
johnm@weissereng.com
"Matt" <jeg2dsign@(removethis)earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:420cc570$1_1@newsprd01...
This is sort of what Im leaning towards as well....
using xrefs instead of many layers
You obviously don't want an unecessarily bloated file however you will
have
as many layers as you need. Using xref's won't cut down on your
layers,
your xreffed layers come in also. The important part is having a layer
system that lends flexibility to the drawing, defined by it's intended
use.
Matt
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OLD-CADaver
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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<<I still have all of the text for every other type of pipe cluttering up the junk having to trace down and make sure you have the right note... >>
Annotation in PS really cleans up a model. |
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W. Kirk Crawford
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:40 am Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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Me,
Are you using layouts for each different set for electrical, HVAC, etc.?
W. Kirk Crawford
Rochester Hills, Michigan |
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W. Kirk Crawford
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:44 am Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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OLD-CADaver,
<Snip>
Evry time the multiple tab discussion comes up, someone talks about creating a mess. I just don't understand. We use multiple tabs
all the time, and have since the capability was presented and none of our files are in a "mess".
<Snip>
Now why can't I sell this idea to the rest of the group?
W. Kirk Crawford
Rochester Hills, Michigan |
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OLD-CADaver
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:11 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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| I'm still wondering what "mess" everyone keeps talking about?? |
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John Michalik
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:47 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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You know, "THE MESS". sheeesh O.C. :)
--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards
johnm@weissereng.com
"OLD-CADaver" <nospam@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:8017099.1108487499283.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com...
> I'm still wondering what "mess" everyone keeps talking about?? |
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Jay
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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| Quote: | I'm still wondering what "mess" everyone keeps talking about??
|
All the extra layers and entitities that someone who needs to xref your drawings will have to sort through.
If nobody xrefs your files, then it makes no difference what you want to do. On the other hand, if someone does need to
xref your drawings, the cleaner the better. |
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OLD-CADaver
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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| Quote: | I'm still wondering what "mess" everyone keeps talking about??
|
<<All the extra layers and entitities that someone who needs to xref your drawings will have to sort through.>>
What does that have to do with multiple tabs? If you're annotating in MS those layers will be there whether they are separate files or multiple tabs in one file.
<<If nobody xrefs your files, then it makes no difference what you want to do. On the other hand, if someone does need to xref your drawings, the cleaner the better. >>
Granted, the cleaner the better, but that's an argument for annotation in PS, not against multiple layout tabs. |
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Jay
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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| Quote: | What does that have to do with multiple tabs?
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In my experience, multiple tabs mean that everything, including the kitchen sink, is piled on top of each other in the
model. Then, the perpetrator freezes select layers in each viewport to get what he wants to show on each tab. |
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OLD-CADaver
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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| Quote: | In my experience, multiple tabs mean that everything, including the kitchen sink, is piled on top of each other in the model. Then, the perpetrator freezes select layers in each viewport to get what he wants to show on each tab.
|
Again, that is an argument FOR annotation in PS, not against multiple tabs. That information is required to reside somewhere, either multiple tabs or multiple files, so there is no reduction in effort and the "mess" stays the same, just spread out and more difficult to control.
There is no "mess" associated with multiple tabs, unless you have a messy designer, but that too is not a problem with multiple tabs. |
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John Michalik
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Seeking Advice |
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Sigh, again I have to agree w/ O.C. How boring. It's not so much an issue
of the multiple tabs in my opinion, or even the amount of info. that resides
in the model as it is how that information is setup. You wouldn't want to
create the whole dang set of drawings from Arch to Civil to Interiors, etc.
in one drawing file, but you can group disciplines and related items if you
plan a little bit before you jump in. For the mult. tabs to work
efficiently, you've got to have the drawing organized all the way from layer
naming on text (be it callouts, notes, whatever). Then it is a relatively
simple matter when xrefing that drawing to turn of the layer or group of
layers that don't pertain to what you are trying to accomplish in your
particular drawing.
| Quote: | There is no "mess" associated with multiple tabs, unless you have a messy
designer, but that too is not a problem with multiple tabs. |
he he. gotcha there. I've got some legacy drawings floating around from
years back from 'messy designers' that make you want to cry. All the tabs
in the world can't help you if everything is only on two layers! What a
pain in !@#$. Maybe CAD needs a 'Color Isolate' option. I can see that
helping. :)
--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards
johnm@weissereng.com
"OLD-CADaver" <nospam@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:14159138.1108566651186.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com...
| Quote: | In my experience, multiple tabs mean that everything, including the
kitchen sink, is piled on top of each other in the model. Then, the |
perpetrator freezes select layers in each viewport to get what he wants to
show on each tab.>>
| Quote: |
Again, that is an argument FOR annotation in PS, not against multiple
tabs. That information is required to reside somewhere, either multiple |
tabs or multiple files, so there is no reduction in effort and the "mess"
stays the same, just spread out and more difficult to control.
| Quote: |
There is no "mess" associated with multiple tabs, unless you have a messy
designer, but that too is not a problem with multiple tabs. |
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