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Sam
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:25 am Post subject:
Verdict in AutoCAD is or was Better Than Microstation |
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Now with the release of Microstation V8 does it mean Bentley finally
admits their file format from the 1970's is grossly outdated? Now
Bentley switches to more things closer to AutoCAD. They finally
abandoned the limited 63 levels. changed their entire way of thinking
with the seed files and positioning to AutoCAD way of thinking. I
have been monitoring the barbs back and forth over the years between
AutoCAD and Microstation people arguing which is better but have never
weighed in until now.
Our firm has used AutoCAD since 1987 and Microstation since 1991.
Over the years we have switched from 90% AutoCAD to 80% Microstation
today but not due to which is better but due to our clients - D.O.T.
Most users of both seem to have preferred AutoCAD over the years. I
have to say that due to the Microstation file format I mentioned to
start this article our firm has been in the last 3 years constantly
been fixing and restoring corrupt Microstation files. I looked over
records and did surveys in the firm and over the last 5 year period we
had 6 corrupt AutoCAD files while for that same period as best we can
discern we have had 437 corrupt files. I finally broke down and got
Axiom's file fixer to try to cut down on the edg time we were
spending. As a test I ran Fiel Fixer on some 12,000 files we
currently have in Microstation, File Fixer reported over 10,000 files
with some form of error. Granted some are lower level and Axiom does
have redundant errors reported but with a magnitude anywhere close to
that high is totally unacceptable for any software (except of course
MS, we have grown to accept that). In Axiom's own literature on
"Where corruption comes from", they use it as a boast that the other
programs with complex file formats which do also sustain corruption
does not have a file fixing utility like theirs. Why is that because
no other program like Microstation has been so troublesome and had
such an out dated file format as to cause so much trouble - that is
spawns a need for a third party to aid in fixing their product. If
there is a need in a capitalistic society there will be a product.
Where is the file fixer for AutoCAD, etc... No one could make any
money producing it due to the low need. But Microstation wow we need
many more firms helping this program.
Microstation never had a recover or CRC check as AutoCAD has had
(until now with V8). I have been working with the firm that supports
us and Bentley and I keep hearing it is due to power flucuations,
corrupt upf files, seeds files with problems used in the first place
or the best yet "this things just happen to complex files". No
program in our office, Quark, Word, AutoCAD, Photoshop, etc.. has been
as troublesome as Microstation. The problem is even doubled with
Microstation from the other programs due to the exchange of info from
surveyors, subs etc.. As soon as I get our directory cleaned up and
our files stabilized, in comes a subs topo or drainage files
referenced and used, starting the process over again due to another
firms probelsm with Microstation.
The final straw was when V8 finally came out. Riddle-me-this what
program when issued did not allow the saving or save as of there files
down to a lower version of their own software? Give Up?
Microstation. It took three revs for them to finally get the
coordinates to trnaslate down to V7. Still it is a bit shaky so that
not any firms I deal with dare to save from V8 to V7 but only work in
one or the other period. Hopefully v08.05 when released next month
will finally have all the bugs out and be an acceptable workable
version.
Sam
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Jose Bonifacio
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:25 am Post subject:
Re: Verdict in AutoCAD is or was Better Than Microstation |
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AutoCAD is the better alternative for those with $$$, try Intellicad
if you have a limited budget. Same functions and menus between the 2
if you plan to do only simple CAD. |
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Roger
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Verdict in AutoCAD is or was Better Than Microstation |
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bonnijose@yahoo.com (Jose Bonifacio) wrote in message news:<4efc3e66.0401291925.485c8422@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | AutoCAD is the better alternative for those with $$$, try Intellicad
if you have a limited budget. Same functions and menus between the 2
if you plan to do only simple CAD.
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If that's not cheap enough you can go to Walmart and get an
Etch-a-sketch. Please don't tell any managers that!
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Tahimik
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 31, 2004 8:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Verdict in AutoCAD is or was Better Than Microstation |
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Here we go again. You can glorified Autocad to your heart content,
we are not switching and still sticking to Microstation.
As I said before and do not mind repeating:
Autocad is coffee,
Microstation is cappuccino,
Once you tasted the cappuccino
You will never go back to coffee
My only disappointment with microstation is it's
changing its flavor to taste like coffee in V8.
I guess it is business decision, there are more
ordinary coffee drinker than sophisticated cappuccino's. |
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O.H.Ystanes
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:42 am Post subject:
Re: Verdict in AutoCAD is or was Better Than Microstation |
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On 31 Jan 2004 07:07:44 -0800, tahimik@email.com (Tahimik) wrote:
| Quote: | Here we go again. You can glorified Autocad to your heart content,
we are not switching and still sticking to Microstation.
As I said before and do not mind repeating:
Autocad is coffee,
Microstation is cappuccino,
Once you tasted the cappuccino
You will never go back to coffee
My only disappointment with microstation is it's
changing its flavor to taste like coffee in V8.
I guess it is business decision, there are more
ordinary coffee drinker than sophisticated cappuccino's.
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Look at Acad and uStn as tools You will find both have their
strength and limitations.
MicroStation is better for fast and rough 3D modelling.
Acad is better for true solid modelling.
Both are obsolete compared to SolidWorks / Inventor ...
I've been using uStn since 1988, (IGDS since 1985),
Acad since 1999, Inventor since 2002.
File corruption in uStn is usually related to network glitches.
It is wise to copy the active .DGN file to Your local PC to
avoid the continously writing to the server HD over the network.
Preferably done automaticly when You open a .DGN file.
I've followed this rule since 1988 and the number of corrupt
uStn files are maybe one or two per Year. No need for
Axiom file fixer here.
uStn early versions made a lot of bad .DGN files due to bugs and
Bentley's new elements not being designed properly.
Hallstein |
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Ivo Blaauw
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Verdict in AutoCAD is or was Better Than Microstation |
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S_Smith@WallaceMontgomery.com (Sam) wrote
| Quote: | Now with the release of Microstation V8 does it mean Bentley finally
admits their file format from the 1970's is grossly outdated?
Bentley did not change their file format each time a new |
version came out. Autodesk rendered the compatibility almost
impossible each time it updated. Backward file support?
You HAVE to convert all your old drawings or keep old ACAD 8
close by. Even Bentley did more support on old dwg then Autodesk.
| Quote: | Now Bentley switches to more things closer to AutoCAD.
Didnt Autodesk switch to Microstation? I think of XREF that |
was only there since ACAD 14. Nobady used it, because it
didn't just didn't work Ttry copy one element from an XREF
and you end up with an entire file copy. That was what
they had WBLOCK for not XREF.
| Quote: | They finally abandoned the limited 63 levels.
Good use of References made the limit no problem to me. |
So they do listen to their customers. Does Autodesk?
Is was thinking of open dwg and open dgn here too.
| Quote: | changed their entire way of thinking
with the seed files and positioning to AutoCAD way of thinking. I
I finally broke down and got
Axiom's file fixer to try to cut down on the edg time we were
spending. As a test I ran Fiel Fixer on some 12,000 files we
currently have in Microstation, File Fixer reported over 10,000 files
with some form of error. Granted some are lower level and Axiom does
have redundant errors reported but with a magnitude anywhere close to
that high is totally unacceptable for any software (except of course
MS, we have grown to accept that).
What about Windows? Hmmm? |
| Quote: | Microstation never had a recover or CRC check as AutoCAD has had
(until now with V8). I have been working with the firm that supports
us and Bentley and I keep hearing it is due to power flucuations,
corrupt upf files, seeds files with problems used in the first place
or the best yet "this things just happen to complex files".
People in ICT just say these thing when they don't know what the |
answer is, 'cause neither do you and I. No point debating 'bout
it with these people. 'Reboot' they say.
| Quote: | No
program in our office, Quark, Word, AutoCAD, Photoshop, etc.. has been
as troublesome as Microstation.
Do you use them (Word, Photoshop etc.) as much as Microstation ? |
It's just a tool. Instruct all the people well and they will deliver
proper work. Got a bad carpenter on the job? Good tools can't save his
screw ups then. Same goes for education on these tools.
| Quote: | The problem is even doubled with
Microstation from the other programs due to the exchange of info from
surveyors, subs etc.. As soon as I get our directory cleaned up and
our files stabilized, in comes a subs topo or drainage files
referenced and used, starting the process over again due to another
firms probelsm with Microstation.
Bussines for you. Tell them you can fix their problems for mucho $$$. |
Looks to me that you had your seven good years with ACAD and are now
in the seven bad yours with microstation.
I have been both ACAD and Ustation user.
It never even came to my mind to start complaining about ACAD in the
ACAD-newsgroup as a Ustation user. ACAD users seem to have the need to
anoy the hard workers in the Microstation newsgroup.
Ivo |
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