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Rich D · Guest

*****BEWARE - This is a long drawn out request for help***********

I recently started a new job where they use IDEAS as the CAD tool of
choice. Although they have this powerful tool, they do not use the 3D
modeling aspect of it. They claim that it was not needed. So what they
have is a lot of drawings with no model behind it. Some of the
engineers are just starting to get into the modeling portion but there
is no real library of part or assemblies that have been completed. I do
not think the engineers really have a good sense of how to model with
the tool since they have been repeatedly told to not use their AutoCAD
software.

Because many of our customers (95%) use Catia, we have a few licenses
on hand to read in their files into IDEAS and create DXF files. They
really do not have a good handle on 3D IGES, STEP or Parasolid files.

So, I have been told that since I am new and "bring fresh new ideas" I
can make some suggestions as to how to go forward. My first suggestion
is to go start looking for a mid-range modeler since the designs can
easily be done in that type of tool. I am going to suggest SolidWorks
for several reasons:

A) I'm biased to this tool

B) Ramp up time

C) Opportunity to package it with PDMworks, since they have no PDM
system at this time

D) Price vs. Catia or IDEAS - To that point, does anyone know what a
seat of IDEAS costs? This would be a bare bones version, with modeling
and drafting capabilities and maybe some FEA. I know the first thing
going to be asked is $$$$$?????

E) Most of customers have Catia and from what I have read in some other
threads Dassault has a translator ImpactXoft (sp?) that works well
between these two packages.

F) Many of the vendors we have already use SolidWorks and working with
them would be much easier.

G) Finding experienced IDEAS CAD users in this area is not easy. They
seem to gather around the Michigan (automotive) and Washington State
(airplane) design centers. The company I am working for is a supplier
to the airplane industry.

H) It reads directly into another tool that we use extensively called
Lectra. This would help out tremendously.

I really do not want to debate the pros and cons of SolidWorks vs.
other tools. What I would like to have is some help in putting together
some type of presentation to show the head of engineering to convince
him to even look at making a change.

Any ideas where to start on this?

Anybody have the opportunity to make a presentation to change culture
at there place of employment?

Any help would be appreciated

Rich D.

BoC · Guest

Rich D wrote:

neil · Guest

are you sure about H)?

Rich D · Guest

Bo:
Thx for the input and I agree with you on the points mentioned. I
replied with ******preceding my comments.

Thx Again

Rich

*********BoC wrote********
Analysis Points to Recognize & Learn About:

Rich D · Guest

According to Lectra's website and informational brochure located at the
link below this is true.

http://www.lectra.com/binaries/designconcept_techtex_industrial_fabrics_pdf_tcm27-56638.pdf

Additonal information is given about the the translator with CATIA is
located here

http://www.lectra.com/en/industrial_fabrics/options/designconcept_industrialfabrics_3d_catia_v5_translator.html

Rich

Brad · Guest

Here in the Toronto area, there are many companies that design and sell
parts to the auto industry. They are all fored to use I-deas, Catia,
and UG by their clients. Most of them around here also use SolidWorks
for internal drawings.
One of the reasons I believe, is that SolidWorks shares data with other
CAD systems so well. When we were looking, we found many CnC shops and
protoype shops we dealt with were using SolidWorks for this same
reason.
Brad

neil · Guest

OK I see that import of native SW files is listed on p5 of the PDF.

Looking at the optional Catia translator info though I think the file
extensions are different.
SW handles Catia as .cgr in/out - dumb parts for viewing...

BTW sorry if I underestimated your enterprise in your last post - I thought
you had a one off issue you wanted a soln for - we do our best to be helpful
here :o)

Next time I pass the local company I will drop in a copy of the Lectra PDF.
They could sure use something like this...

ken · Guest

Rich,
I would recommend that you call your local UGS rep. Since Ideas is a
UGS product, you could probably get an upgrade deal on either NX or Solid
Edge. Both products have some ability to read in Ideas data. Lectra will
also read Solid Edge native files, and if you need to continue with your 2D
workflow for some reason, Solid Edge's 2D environment is very good. It will
also read/write Catia model files.

Ken
"Rich D" <rduck@datumpointdesign.com> wrote in message
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John · Guest

I-Deas is being merged with Unigraphics NX, and there has been good
interoperability between the two systems for a number of releases.
With the latest releases, this has been taken virtually to its conclusion
with the ability to fully migrate I-Deas data to NX, with all associations
between parts/assemblies/drawings fully in tact.

This may not be of great interest to you if your company does not have much
3D data.
However, what may be of interest is that there is free license transfer from
I-Deas to NX, so that might be a good route to go down.

Before you ditch I-Deas, here's a few other points to note:-

- it comes with data management built in - it can't be used without it.
The standard offering is TDM (Team Data Manager) which gives full check
in/out + revision control + concurrent engineering for all I-Deas data, but
not files from other apps. It's bullet proof.
The alternative is TeamCenter Engineering, which is an Oracle or SQL based
system, that has modules for anything you can think of, and can handle any
sort of data and even multiple CAD systems. TCEng is also the PDM system
for NX.

- I-Deas has some of the best (if not THE best) analysis tools you can
buy, not just counting those that you can buy as add-ons for a CAD system.
Many companies buy these tools to use with other CAD systems.

- Solidworks doesn't have data management and as I'm finding out in my new
job, it's a complete pain in the ass without it!! Sure you can get the very
basic PDM-works, or other 3rd party apps, but I know of companies that have
had many problems wih these.

- I-Deas has first-rate 2D draughting capabilities, and although I've been
a 3D convert for the last 15 years, there are many times when you need a 2D
drawing. SolidWorks does not have much capability here, so you're stuck
with learning/using DWG Editor as well.

The price of I-Deas varies greatly, depending on what you buy. There is a
bundle called Artisan which has all the main part modelling tools
(exceptions are advanced surfacing), all the assembly tools, draughting &
data management. It costs around £4000 in the UK. It can rise quite steeply
if you want to add other modules.

Hope this helps,
John Harland

"ken" <goaway@noway.gov> wrote in message
news:dm8bu6$7cd$1@news.netins.net...

Rich D · Guest

John:

The points you mentioned are good but here are my viepoints on the
matter

#1 - I-Deas is being merged with Unigraphics NX - Again, the company
uses the tool in the same way that most people use AutoCAD. Their is
very little in the way of models. Quite often I see people create the
model and export it out as a DXF file so that it is "easier" to work
with. They then throw away the model. I am not really concerned about
loosing data in IDEAS.

#2 Data Managment - I have seen PDMWorks in use before and have not had
a problem with it. IDEAS does have a strong data management system but
it only handles IDEAS files. I would want to put all electronic data in
this system and use it as a central repository for documentation.

#3 - I-DEAS has some of the best (if not THE best) analysis tools you
can buy - If they used this tool, that would be a good argument. But,
A) they really do not use it, and B) I could get the Cosmos in
SolidWorks Office Professional package . I can find users out of
college who have more exposure to this mush easier than the Nastran FEA
package in IDEAS.

#4 - Solidworks doesn't have data management - As mentioned, I would
look prefer to go after the SolidWorks Office Professional package,
which includes PDMWorks built in.

#5 - I-Deas has first-rate 2D draughting capabilities - Now here is a
point that I agree with you on. Because there are so much 2D drafting
(sorry, I spell it the way of the Colonies) Solidworks may cause some
heartache with the people trying to make quick 2D representation. If I
can get the 2D drawings out of the equation, I probably can avoid this
problem.

BTW, I just found out that resellers who represent UGS have been poking
around where I work a couple of months ago trying to sell solidEdge.
they pretty much had the same arguments I have outlined. Since they
were from the outside, they were not received to well. they were given
about an hour to explain their point. I was at another job at that time
so I did hear their pitch. I know that they will probably be coming
back very soon making another go at it. If I was here when they came
around the first time, I would have agreed with them, begrudgingly.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Your points helped

Rich

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