| Author |
Message |
Paul
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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Hi,
I'm new in Solidworks and I would like to know if it is powerful enough to
design complex objects such as bottles.
I made some tutorials and the program looks really great and easy to learn.
No problem to draw a round bottle, for example.
But when I'm trying to draw more complex things, such like handle design or
an engraved text on a round surface, it looks a little bit limitated. But
maybe it's because I don't have much experience ?
Does somebody have experience in this field ?
Thanks for your answers,
Paul
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That70sTick
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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Currently I am working on a similar type of project in SW: a decorative
water filter pitcher for an ID-driven customer. Customer's
Vellum-generated surfaces define the "A" surfaces. All surfaces are
remade from scratch in SW to match, so that the model has "live"
surfaces driving the solid. The models have so far survived many
unpredictable twitches and tweaks for various unforeseen reasons.
Maintaining a complex feature-driven surface model has more to do with
a user's ability to visualize and organize than it has to do with the
capability of the software. SW is on par with Pro/E in this type of
work, as far as being able to design and maintain complex shapes.
Pro/E has a slight advantage, notbaly in adjusting imported data and
the venerable "variable section sweep" feature. Both are at least a
generation behind UG for this type of work. Pro/E & SW let you play
doctor. UG lets you play God.
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TOP
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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There are several well know bottle manufactureres that use SW. Some
were listed at SWW last year. |
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John Eric Voltin
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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It would be difficult to answer your question completely without seeing some
examples of the parts you wish to model, but I would guess that you haven't
explored all of SolidWorks capabilities yet. You should thoroughly educate
yourself about sweeps, lofts, the wrap feature, and the use of surfaces
(this is a big topic), just to get you started. Simply reading about these
features/functions won't be sufficient to evaluate their capabilities. You
will have to use them and develop some familiarity with their capabilities,
nuances, and limitations. With experience you will discover that creating
complex parts has become surprisingly easy.
Short answer - SolidWorks can design very complex objects. It can easily be
used to design handles and text on round surfaces. In fact, SolidWorks
offers multiple methods for accomplishing such goals.
--
- John
John Eric Voltin
Mechanical Engineer
Agile Technology
512-633-0394
"Paul" <paul.weymeers@tiscali.be> wrote in message
news:P9CdnQPj8u398e_eRVnyuw@scarlet.biz...
| Quote: | Hi,
I'm new in Solidworks and I would like to know if it is powerful enough to
design complex objects such as bottles.
I made some tutorials and the program looks really great and easy to
learn. No problem to draw a round bottle, for example.
But when I'm trying to draw more complex things, such like handle design
or an engraved text on a round surface, it looks a little bit limitated.
But maybe it's because I don't have much experience ?
Does somebody have experience in this field ?
Thanks for your answers,
Paul
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John Layne
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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Paul wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
I'm new in Solidworks and I would like to know if it is powerful enough to
design complex objects such as bottles.
I made some tutorials and the program looks really great and easy to learn.
No problem to draw a round bottle, for example.
But when I'm trying to draw more complex things, such like handle design or
an engraved text on a round surface, it looks a little bit limitated. But
maybe it's because I don't have much experience ?
Does somebody have experience in this field ?
Thanks for your answers,
Paul
|
If it's curvy stuff you are looking to design rather than prismatic
parts, you need to come to grips with.
1/ Surface modelling
2/ Lofting
3/ Sweeps
4/ Wrap for text on your curved surfaces
The Dimonte group has tutorials on surfacing, well worth a look.
http://www.dimontegroup.com/Tutorials.htm (their server wasn't
responding when I checked the link a few minutes ago)
Do a search on google within this group on surface modelling.
John Layne
www.solidengineering.co.nz |
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neil
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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I am going to be outrageous here and suggest that what Ed Eaton does is
compensate well for the limitations of SW tools by intelligent 'hacks'.
To my mind SW still doesn't have a really articulate way of forming complex
surfaces.
Sure you can cut it around and patch all over the place but manhandling the
underlying geometry is stiff and awkward and there is inevitably the odd
transitional bump between surfaces at the end of it...
If you do a lot of surfacing that has a need for sweet tangencies, creases
and the like SW may not have enough everyday power for you - although it is
slowly improving with each release. If you want to stay with SW an add on in
the form of Shapeworks or Surfaceworks may be a good compromise to improve
its workability. |
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John Layne
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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neil wrote:
| Quote: | I am going to be outrageous here and suggest that what Ed Eaton does is
compensate well for the limitations of SW tools by intelligent 'hacks'.
To my mind SW still doesn't have a really articulate way of forming complex
surfaces.
Sure you can cut it around and patch all over the place but manhandling the
underlying geometry is stiff and awkward and there is inevitably the odd
transitional bump between surfaces at the end of it...
If you do a lot of surfacing that has a need for sweet tangencies, creases
and the like SW may not have enough everyday power for you - although it is
slowly improving with each release. If you want to stay with SW an add on in
the form of Shapeworks or Surfaceworks may be a good compromise to improve
its workability.
|
Hi Neil,
Interesting comments, for 99% of what I do SolidWorks works very well.
Surfacing with SolidWorks is somewhat clunky (or maybe that is just my
ability or lack there of).
I'm wondering what you use for surfacing?
Do you surface in another package and then bring surface models back
into SolidWorks for detailing etc?
The thought of surfacing in another package sounds tempting if it's more
user friendly but loosing the parametric data by having a dumb solid in
the tree is concerning.
ShapeWorks looks good - I downloaded a trial some years ago. My thoughts
at the time was it was a little over priced and seemed to lack
parametric links to the rest of model. Note this was some time ago it
may have changed and my memory of its usefulness may be a little blurred.
Surfaceworks seems powerful but clunkier than general surfacing in
SolidWorks.
I would be grateful if someone using either SurfaceWorks or ShapeWorks
could post a review of their experiences.
Regards
John Layne
www.solidengineering.co.nz |
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Jerry Steiger
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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"John Layne" <JohnDON'TBUGMEWITHSPAM@solidengineering.co.nz> wrote in
message news:skucf.106$vH5.10381@news.xtra.co.nz...
| Quote: | I'm new in Solidworks and I would like to know if it is powerful enough
to design complex objects such as bottles.
The Dimonte group has tutorials on surfacing, well worth a look.
http://www.dimontegroup.com/Tutorials.htm (their server wasn't responding
when I checked the link a few minutes ago)
|
In particular, look at Curvy Stuff 201, where Ed goes through the steps to
model a bottle with handle. If you like what you see there, then I suggest
you download all of the Curvy Stuff tutorials and work through them in
order. If at all possible, go to SolidWorks World and take in the Ed Eaton
and Mark Biasotti sessions.
Jerry Steiger
Tripod Data Systems
"take the garbage out, dear" |
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matt
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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Thanks for posting that, whoever you are. I thought I was the only one
who believed that. SurfaceWorks certainly is under rated by most people
who aren't familiar with it. ShapeWorks is certainly over rated by most
people who aren't familiar with it. If I had easy access to it, I'm
sure I would use SurfaceWorks for design even now. You just can't
replace the ability to push and pull points on a grid and watch a whole
face update live in front of you. I think the concepts of magnets,
rings, and snakes are extremely intuitive after the first hour of
working with it.
As for the earlier comments from another poster about "intelligent
hacks", well, I don't think that poster could be more wrong. Until
product design and engineering is done by a computer without human
intervention, there will always be the need for operators to possess
"skill" and use "techniques", which are primarily what Ed shows. The
lack of a "do my work for me" button in SolidWorks is what allows me to
still make a living. If it were as easy as pushing a button, anyone
could do it.
matt
In article <6eydneQPLueVieTeRVn-rQ@comcast.com>, nospam_cadguru@gte.net
says...
| Quote: |
I used Surfaceworks for 3 years (1999-2002) to accomplish what was required
in electronics packaging/consumer product design It is a very powerful tool
for creating "associative" curves, points, surfaces etc. It is very
interactive in that you can pull on a point curve etc. and have the surface
follow live. This is great for ID.
for US$999 standalone you can't beat the power (better than rhino for
geometry creation), however I feel the additional US$2K for the SolidWorks
connection is overpriced.
The interface is a little overwhelming at first, but once you understand 4
basic concepts it is an easy tool to use. The only thing I would use it for
at this time would be to create "developable" sheetmetal patterns. Used in
the metal ship/boat industry. (and some architectural Design)
I stopped using Surfaceworks when I could generate the same geometry with
SolidWorks alone. This was a more lengthy process to create the same
associative surface models however the backend gains of having a production
ready solid were greater than the losses.
If you would like more info let me know, and I'll elaborate further.
ps. IMHO Shapeworks is not a production tool and creates geometries that
are less than desirable.
Regards,
Cadguru
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cadguru
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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Call it what you like,
I make a good living at "hacking" up products on a daily basis.
Cadguru
Thanks for your support Matt.
"matt" <m_lombard@ver_zon.not> wrote in message
news:MPG.1de2e34ade77eb098973c@news.verizon.net...
| Quote: | Thanks for posting that, whoever you are. I thought I was the only one
who believed that. SurfaceWorks certainly is under rated by most people
who aren't familiar with it. ShapeWorks is certainly over rated by most
people who aren't familiar with it. If I had easy access to it, I'm
sure I would use SurfaceWorks for design even now. You just can't
replace the ability to push and pull points on a grid and watch a whole
face update live in front of you. I think the concepts of magnets,
rings, and snakes are extremely intuitive after the first hour of
working with it.
As for the earlier comments from another poster about "intelligent
hacks", well, I don't think that poster could be more wrong. Until
product design and engineering is done by a computer without human
intervention, there will always be the need for operators to possess
"skill" and use "techniques", which are primarily what Ed shows. The
lack of a "do my work for me" button in SolidWorks is what allows me to
still make a living. If it were as easy as pushing a button, anyone
could do it.
matt
In article <6eydneQPLueVieTeRVn-rQ@comcast.com>, nospam_cadguru@gte.net
says...
I used Surfaceworks for 3 years (1999-2002) to accomplish what was
required
in electronics packaging/consumer product design It is a very powerful
tool
for creating "associative" curves, points, surfaces etc. It is very
interactive in that you can pull on a point curve etc. and have the
surface
follow live. This is great for ID.
for US$999 standalone you can't beat the power (better than rhino for
geometry creation), however I feel the additional US$2K for the
SolidWorks
connection is overpriced.
The interface is a little overwhelming at first, but once you understand
4
basic concepts it is an easy tool to use. The only thing I would use it
for
at this time would be to create "developable" sheetmetal patterns. Used
in
the metal ship/boat industry. (and some architectural Design)
I stopped using Surfaceworks when I could generate the same geometry with
SolidWorks alone. This was a more lengthy process to create the same
associative surface models however the backend gains of having a
production
ready solid were greater than the losses.
If you would like more info let me know, and I'll elaborate further.
ps. IMHO Shapeworks is not a production tool and creates geometries that
are less than desirable.
Regards,
Cadguru
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neil
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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| ok so elaborate further...and what makes Shapeworks unsatisfactory? |
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cadguru
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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|
I used Surfaceworks for 3 years (1999-2002) to accomplish what was required
in electronics packaging/consumer product design It is a very powerful tool
for creating "associative" curves, points, surfaces etc. It is very
interactive in that you can pull on a point curve etc. and have the surface
follow live. This is great for ID.
for US$999 standalone you can't beat the power (better than rhino for
geometry creation), however I feel the additional US$2K for the SolidWorks
connection is overpriced.
The interface is a little overwhelming at first, but once you understand 4
basic concepts it is an easy tool to use. The only thing I would use it for
at this time would be to create "developable" sheetmetal patterns. Used in
the metal ship/boat industry. (and some architectural Design)
I stopped using Surfaceworks when I could generate the same geometry with
SolidWorks alone. This was a more lengthy process to create the same
associative surface models however the backend gains of having a production
ready solid were greater than the losses.
If you would like more info let me know, and I'll elaborate further.
ps. IMHO Shapeworks is not a production tool and creates geometries that
are less than desirable.
Regards,
Cadguru
"John Layne" <JohnDON'TBUGMEWITHSPAM@solidengineering.co.nz> wrote in
message news:X_6ef.1172$vH5.73187@news.xtra.co.nz...
| Quote: | neil wrote:
I am going to be outrageous here and suggest that what Ed Eaton does is
compensate well for the limitations of SW tools by intelligent 'hacks'.
To my mind SW still doesn't have a really articulate way of forming
complex surfaces.
Sure you can cut it around and patch all over the place but manhandling
the underlying geometry is stiff and awkward and there is inevitably the
odd transitional bump between surfaces at the end of it...
If you do a lot of surfacing that has a need for sweet tangencies,
creases and the like SW may not have enough everyday power for you -
although it is slowly improving with each release. If you want to stay
with SW an add on in the form of Shapeworks or Surfaceworks may be a good
compromise to improve its workability.
Hi Neil,
Interesting comments, for 99% of what I do SolidWorks works very well.
Surfacing with SolidWorks is somewhat clunky (or maybe that is just my
ability or lack there of).
I'm wondering what you use for surfacing?
Do you surface in another package and then bring surface models back into
SolidWorks for detailing etc?
The thought of surfacing in another package sounds tempting if it's more
user friendly but loosing the parametric data by having a dumb solid in
the tree is concerning.
ShapeWorks looks good - I downloaded a trial some years ago. My thoughts
at the time was it was a little over priced and seemed to lack parametric
links to the rest of model. Note this was some time ago it may have
changed and my memory of its usefulness may be a little blurred.
Surfaceworks seems powerful but clunkier than general surfacing in
SolidWorks.
I would be grateful if someone using either SurfaceWorks or ShapeWorks
could post a review of their experiences.
Regards
John Layne
www.solidengineering.co.nz
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neil
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:20 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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It has nothing to do with skill or application matt, it's about making do
with the available tools. Ed does surgery on his models to arrive at an
acceptable result. Look at the patchwork quilts on some of his models - it
is apparent it is a time consuming and compromised process.
In comparison take a look at Alias Studio Tools and try telling me that
isn't a much more powerful program. Try producing something like an auto
body in SW - very difficult to get something that you have control over... |
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matt
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:17 am Post subject:
Re: Solidworks : powerful enough to design bottles ? |
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In article <wJaef.1238$vH5.62528@news.xtra.co.nz>, neilscad@hotmail.com
says...
| Quote: | It has nothing to do with skill ...
|
Very much the contrary, it has everything to do with skill. I have been
asked to remodel in SolidWorks models originally created in Alias,
Catia, Pro/E and UG, all of which are more sophisticated than SolidWorks
in surfacing, but the models I received were pretty poor. The models
finished in SolidWorks were improvements on the originals. The tools
are only as good as the hands they are in.
| Quote: | ... it is a time consuming and compromised process.
|
And what isn't?
| Quote: | In comparison take a look at Alias Studio Tools and try telling me that
isn't a much more powerful program.
|
Alias is more powerful in many respects, but the last time I tried to do
much in solids in Alias, I switched back to SW in a hurry. For what I
do, the benefit I get in surfacing doesn't pay for the hassle in the
engineering type work.
Plus, Alias has a unique way of looking at model history which leaves
some aspects of what you do less flexible than you might hope.
| Quote: | Try producing something like an auto
body in SW - very difficult ...
|
Try to model a functional latch in Alias with sheet metal, cast parts,
get CG info, do a quick stress analysis and then do drawings. Choose
your tools and then get good at them.
Matt |
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