| Author |
Message |
zion9
Guest
|
 Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Dead Career - Drafting |
|
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If you are thinking about going to school for a Drafting Degree then
RUN!
Drafters draw blueprints and engineers design them. The current
problem is that somehow Drafting and Designing have become synonymous
terms. It used to be that a Drafter would draw blueprints from an
engineer's/architect's verbal instructions and/or the
engineer's/architect's sketches. Now the Drafter is supposed to know
what took an engineer/architect 4+ years to learn. If the Drafter
cannot "pick it up" what took the engineers/architects 4+ years to
learn then they throw you out the back door on your face in the gravel.
Also, Engineers or Architects are refusing to take time to train
Drafters. They say that they don't have time or go grab a book off of
the shelf and figure it out.
A two-year Associate Degree in Drafting WILL NOT prepare you to be an
engineer and do an engineer's job!
I have not designed (like an engineer) commercial buildings or other
engineering projects, but I did draw them by verbal instruction,
engineering sketches and blueprints.
My Computer Aided Drafting degree, basically, prepared me to draw
blueprints using AutoCAD software. Unfortunately, the local Drafting
courses in Kentucky, the Two-Year Drafting programs, do not prepare you
to do engineering design work (what engineers due with a 4+ year
degree).
Typically, all students come out ready to draw blueprints, as Drafters
have always done in the past, but not design without a Bachelors degree
like an engineer is trained to do.
Today, for the modern Drafter, it is turning into the old catch 22
you-need-experience situation. No one has time or is willing to train
yet they demand experience. Furthermore, if you can't "pick up" what
took engineers four years to learn in a year or; in most cases, thirty
days or less then they will lay you off and insult you by saying you
couldn't catch on fast enough. So what is the Drafter left to do?
A downside for the engineer in today's modern engineering office is
that they are expected to spend all of their time drafting while they
could, more productively, spend their time dealing with public
relations and engineering design. Also, most architects and engineers
that I have spoken with have a weak background in CAD and take only a
couple of classes in Drafting during their college education.
Lastly, as stated in my objective, I am looking for a company who is
flexible and willing to train for non-Drafting engineer Design tasks.
The former title for my past experience would be a "CAD
Detailer/Drafter". I have drawn blueprints, as I was prepared to do by
my two-year Associate Degree, but I have not "designed" as one who is
"trained" by an architectural or engineering firm.
Currently, I have been out of a Drafting position for over 2 years
because engineering firms have become too "picky" and want something
for nothing. I guess it time for me to move on and realize that
Drafting is a dead field.
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Troppo
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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"Longshot" <Longshot@aol.com> wrote in
news:M7S7f.277254$084.162220@attbi_s22:
| Quote: |
A two-year Associate Degree in Drafting WILL NOT prepare you to be an
engineer and do an engineer's job!
i know several guys that are prospering in a drafting field that dont
even have that 2 year degree. education is not a substitute for common
sense or taking pride in your work.
|
Maybe it varies from country to country. CAD Drafties here in Oz seem to be
in short supply like many other construction trades. |
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Michael Bulatovich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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|
Same here in Canada. I don't know the OP at all, and I don't know what he
hopes to gain by his post. I don't know anything about him, but if the days
of "dumb drafting" are over you won't see me shed a tear.
I once worked in an office of mostly community college cad jockeys, and
their attitude towards their work was deplorable. The only thing they cared
about were their paychecks, beer, pot, sex, and their cars. One guy handed
me a supposedly finished set of plans for a house and there was an entire of
corner of the house which had no means of structural support. When I asked
him how he could take a set of drawings as far as he did without a clue
about how it stood up, he said he couldn't figure that part out, so he just
moved on.
Elsewhere, I have had the honor of working with "mere" draftsman who
elevated their work to the level of a fine craft, and they taught me a lot
that I still carry around today. These guys don't have to look for work.
Work comes looking for them.
--
MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Troppo" <troppo19@notsohotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96FC5091AA563troppo19notsohotmail@210.8.230.25...
| Quote: | "Longshot" <Longshot@aol.com> wrote in
news:M7S7f.277254$084.162220@attbi_s22:
A two-year Associate Degree in Drafting WILL NOT prepare you to be an
engineer and do an engineer's job!
i know several guys that are prospering in a drafting field that dont
even have that 2 year degree. education is not a substitute for common
sense or taking pride in your work.
Maybe it varies from country to country. CAD Drafties here in Oz seem to
be
in short supply like many other construction trades. |
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Longshot
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
|
|
| Quote: | A two-year Associate Degree in Drafting WILL NOT prepare you to be an
engineer and do an engineer's job!
|
i know several guys that are prospering in a drafting field that dont even
have that 2 year degree. education is not a substitute for common sense or
taking pride in your work. |
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CW
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:20 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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|
Sure sounds like the rantings of someone that just couldn't cut it.
"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:34c44$435fedb9$4fced8a$25956@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | If you are thinking about going to school for a Drafting Degree then
RUN!
Drafters draw blueprints and engineers design them. The current
problem is that somehow Drafting and Designing have become synonymous
terms. It used to be that a Drafter would draw blueprints from an
engineer's/architect's verbal instructions and/or the
engineer's/architect's sketches. Now the Drafter is supposed to know
what took an engineer/architect 4+ years to learn. If the Drafter
cannot "pick it up" what took the engineers/architects 4+ years to
learn then they throw you out the back door on your face in the gravel.
Also, Engineers or Architects are refusing to take time to train
Drafters. They say that they don't have time or go grab a book off of
the shelf and figure it out.
A two-year Associate Degree in Drafting WILL NOT prepare you to be an
engineer and do an engineer's job!
I have not designed (like an engineer) commercial buildings or other
engineering projects, but I did draw them by verbal instruction,
engineering sketches and blueprints.
My Computer Aided Drafting degree, basically, prepared me to draw
blueprints using AutoCAD software. Unfortunately, the local Drafting
courses in Kentucky, the Two-Year Drafting programs, do not prepare you
to do engineering design work (what engineers due with a 4+ year
degree).
Typically, all students come out ready to draw blueprints, as Drafters
have always done in the past, but not design without a Bachelors degree
like an engineer is trained to do.
Today, for the modern Drafter, it is turning into the old catch 22
you-need-experience situation. No one has time or is willing to train
yet they demand experience. Furthermore, if you can't "pick up" what
took engineers four years to learn in a year or; in most cases, thirty
days or less then they will lay you off and insult you by saying you
couldn't catch on fast enough. So what is the Drafter left to do?
A downside for the engineer in today's modern engineering office is
that they are expected to spend all of their time drafting while they
could, more productively, spend their time dealing with public
relations and engineering design. Also, most architects and engineers
that I have spoken with have a weak background in CAD and take only a
couple of classes in Drafting during their college education.
Lastly, as stated in my objective, I am looking for a company who is
flexible and willing to train for non-Drafting engineer Design tasks.
The former title for my past experience would be a "CAD
Detailer/Drafter". I have drawn blueprints, as I was prepared to do by
my two-year Associate Degree, but I have not "designed" as one who is
"trained" by an architectural or engineering firm.
Currently, I have been out of a Drafting position for over 2 years
because engineering firms have become too "picky" and want something
for nothing. I guess it time for me to move on and realize that
Drafting is a dead field. |
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SimonLW
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
|
|
"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:zLT7f.7044$ki7.409544@news20.bellglobal.com...
| Quote: | Same here in Canada. I don't know the OP at all, and I don't know what he
hopes to gain by his post. I don't know anything about him, but if the
days of "dumb drafting" are over you won't see me shed a tear.
I once worked in an office of mostly community college cad jockeys, and
their attitude towards their work was deplorable. The only thing they
cared about were their paychecks, beer, pot, sex, and their cars. One guy
handed me a supposedly finished set of plans for a house and there was an
entire of corner of the house which had no means of structural support.
When I asked him how he could take a set of drawings as far as he did
without a clue about how it stood up, he said he couldn't figure that part
out, so he just moved on.
|
I hope these "cad jockeys" aren't expected to design structural support.
That's the job of the structural engineer.
| Quote: | Elsewhere, I have had the honor of working with "mere" draftsman who
elevated their work to the level of a fine craft, and they taught me a lot
that I still carry around today. These guys don't have to look for work.
Work comes looking for them.
--
We generate models in 3D. With 3D "walkthrough" software, we can visualize |
the model. We can even give a "published" version of the model (not the DWG)
to the client with the 3D viewer and they can visualize what their plant
will look like. The response was tremendous when we first started doing
this.
What I'm getting at, is men and women looking to enter the drafting trades
should consider honing their 3D skills. We have a hard time finding people
who 3D well!
-S |
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Cliff
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
|
|
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:34:30 -0400, "SimonLW" <nospam@donet.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | We can even give a "published" version of the model (not the DWG)
to the client with the 3D viewer and they can visualize what their plant
will look like. The response was tremendous when we first started doing
this.
|
Intergraph 20+ years ago IIRC, among others.
You are way behind.
| Quote: | What I'm getting at, is men and women looking to enter the drafting trades
should consider honing their 3D skills. We have a hard time finding people
who 3D well!
|
2D alone has been obsolete for over 20 years. IIRC 1982 was the
last year I worked with such. On a fully 3D system (CADDS III).
Drawings are for annotation of 3D models where such data is
not directly in the 3D model. Notes, labels, perhaps a few dimensions,
depending, tolerances, etc.
--
Cliff |
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Michael Bulatovich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
|
|
"SimonLW" <nospam@donet.com> wrote in message
news:4360ba82$1_4@newsfeed.slurp.net...
| Quote: | "Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:zLT7f.7044$ki7.409544@news20.bellglobal.com...
I once worked in an office of mostly community college cad jockeys, and
their attitude towards their work was deplorable. The only thing they
cared about were their paychecks, beer, pot, sex, and their cars. One guy
handed me a supposedly finished set of plans for a house and there was an
entire of corner of the house which had no means of structural support.
When I asked him how he could take a set of drawings as far as he did
without a clue about how it stood up, he said he couldn't figure that
part out, so he just moved on.
I hope these "cad jockeys" aren't expected to design structural support.
That's the job of the structural engineer.
|
There's a lot of ground between structural calculations and common sense. My
point is that some fools think that because some fancy-pants, university
trained guy is taking ultimate responsibility for the project, they don't
have to apply common sense to their work.
I wouldn't draw anything I didn't understand, because I wouldn't have any
way of knowing if I had even drawn it correctly, and I would need continual
supervision. That's completely unproductive. If I had to supervise every
"from point" and "to point" I might as well draw it myself. (I ended up
redrawing this guys work, rather than explain it to him.) |
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Modat22
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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|
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:57:29 -0400, "zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote:
I guess I'm luck then, I've been working as a drafter for 15 years,
switched my employer 3 times and my 2nd employer begged and paid me to
return.
I haven't had many good experiences with new drafters coming out of
school. So far we've gone thru 6 over the last 2 years. The problems
we usually have are bad work habits (tardiness, taking off sick often,
and not being very motivated), also most want to argue how a job is to
be done and not wanting to follow company drafting methods.
So basically in a nut shell, we won't hire a fresh drafter anymore.
There are too many drafter / designers out of work willing to actually
work. |
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Modat22
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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| Quote: | 2D alone has been obsolete for over 20 years. IIRC 1982 was the
last year I worked with such. On a fully 3D system (CADDS III).
Drawings are for annotation of 3D models where such data is
not directly in the 3D model. Notes, labels, perhaps a few dimensions,
depending, tolerances, etc.
|
I can draw 2d or 3d, but in the 15 years that I've worked with Cad
I've never had to draw anything in 3D. (HVAC/Plumbing/electrical
building systems)
I also hope we don't switch to 3D in the building services field, Its
bad enough having to change 100,000 square foot hvac or electrical
designs in 2D every time an architect changes a walls location by 3
inches. |
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Dancer
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 1
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject:
Drafting is DEAD ! ! ! |
|
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I agree with zion9 Drafting is dead. I am a Kentuckian as well with a 2-year associate degree and I can't even buy a drafting position. The sad part about it is that I DO enjoy drafting.  |
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jojo
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Doesn't that get back to this?
I can teach you CAD in 40 hours, I can teach you architecture in 40 years.
"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:34c44$435fedb9$4fced8a$25956@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | If you are thinking about going to school for a Drafting Degree then
RUN!
Drafters draw blueprints and engineers design them. The current
problem is that somehow Drafting and Designing have become synonymous
terms. It used to be that a Drafter would draw blueprints from an
engineer's/architect's verbal instructions and/or the
engineer's/architect's sketches. Now the Drafter is supposed to know
what took an engineer/architect 4+ years to learn. If the Drafter
cannot "pick it up" what took the engineers/architects 4+ years to
learn then they throw you out the back door on your face in the gravel.
Also, Engineers or Architects are refusing to take time to train
Drafters. They say that they don't have time or go grab a book off of
the shelf and figure it out.
A two-year Associate Degree in Drafting WILL NOT prepare you to be an
engineer and do an engineer's job!
I have not designed (like an engineer) commercial buildings or other
engineering projects, but I did draw them by verbal instruction,
engineering sketches and blueprints.
My Computer Aided Drafting degree, basically, prepared me to draw
blueprints using AutoCAD software. Unfortunately, the local Drafting
courses in Kentucky, the Two-Year Drafting programs, do not prepare you
to do engineering design work (what engineers due with a 4+ year
degree).
Typically, all students come out ready to draw blueprints, as Drafters
have always done in the past, but not design without a Bachelors degree
like an engineer is trained to do.
Today, for the modern Drafter, it is turning into the old catch 22
you-need-experience situation. No one has time or is willing to train
yet they demand experience. Furthermore, if you can't "pick up" what
took engineers four years to learn in a year or; in most cases, thirty
days or less then they will lay you off and insult you by saying you
couldn't catch on fast enough. So what is the Drafter left to do?
A downside for the engineer in today's modern engineering office is
that they are expected to spend all of their time drafting while they
could, more productively, spend their time dealing with public
relations and engineering design. Also, most architects and engineers
that I have spoken with have a weak background in CAD and take only a
couple of classes in Drafting during their college education.
Lastly, as stated in my objective, I am looking for a company who is
flexible and willing to train for non-Drafting engineer Design tasks.
The former title for my past experience would be a "CAD
Detailer/Drafter". I have drawn blueprints, as I was prepared to do by
my two-year Associate Degree, but I have not "designed" as one who is
"trained" by an architectural or engineering firm.
Currently, I have been out of a Drafting position for over 2 years
because engineering firms have become too "picky" and want something
for nothing. I guess it time for me to move on and realize that
Drafting is a dead field. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
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Michael Bulatovich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
|
|
I don't know about "once" but some get it faster than others, while many
never do.
--
MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
"Longshot" <Longshot@aol.com> wrote in message
news:aA88f.475199$x96.249347@attbi_s72...
| Quote: |
it depends on the person.. some people will never get it. others will pick
it up just by watching someone else do it once.
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Longshot
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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it depends on the person.. some people will never get it. others will pick
it up just by watching someone else do it once. |
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Longshot
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Drafting is DEAD ! ! ! |
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move away from Kentucky. Indiana is thriving with jobs
"Dancer" <highpockets14@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:47CdnWFRX5e0qfzeRVn_vQ@giganews.com...
| Quote: | I agree with zion9 Drafting is dead. I am a Kentuckian as well with a
2-year associate degree and I can't even buy a drafting position. The
sad part about it is that I DO enjoy drafting. :cry: :cry:
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