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zion9
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 Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Opps, I was wrong. :-(
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zion9
Guest
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Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Michael Bulatovich wrote:
| Quote: | All you need is LINE and MOVE to pull that off....and BRAIN set to
(1).
It reminds me of a job I had as a teenager delivering mail. They
interviewed me, and then gave me ten envelopes to place in
alphabetical order according to street name......in two minutes....
Go!
After 30 seconds they asked me if I wanted to double check my
work....after 45 we were staring at each other somewhat uncomfortably
for the rest of the time allotted. I should have known I couldn't
last at that job right there but I was a kid.
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It is funny how smart all the engineers and Architects are. You don't
know me but have me pegged. You know all about my work ethic and how I
work, yet don't know me. Man, you guys are SO smart.
You don't know me to judge me.
Jerks. |
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zion9
Guest
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Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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cadalot wrote:
| Quote: | Get the guy to produce the drawing and see how he does it and how
accurate he is. If he takes more than 3minutes forget it.
I had one guy who after 20-25 minutes I just said sorry and showed him
the door.
http://www.cadalot.co.uk/how_to_draw/3mintest.pdf
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:21:12 +0100, The-trooper
haha.the-trooper@net.hr.hehe> wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:19:52 +0000, cadalot <alan@killspam.co.uk
wrote:
Nearest thing in the uk to what you guys are talking about is a
city & guilds course in AutoCAD, I have seen the wonderful 3D
windmill the guy has drawn, but he can't pass my 3Minute test and
has no understanding on how bricks are bonded
What is that 3Minute test? :)
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Hey! Way to go on giving someone the benefit of the doubt!
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zion9
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Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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cadalot wrote:
| Quote: | A very interesting thread IMHO (As a draughtsman who became an
Engineer by part time study ONC HND (Now called BTEC) and a 4 year
Part time day and evening Honours Degree in Civil Engineering (with
Advanced Structures as my option) whilst working.
Until the site agent, chippy, brick layer, plumber, roofer and others
carry around something to view 3D models on they are for Architects
and clients on schemes that warrent the investment in time and money
to produce them.
Mind you seeing the crap that 60% of Architects create in 2D do we
really want them to produce this in yet another dimension ?
Before I get flamed some of best friend are Architects and so are some
of my worst nightmears, and IMHO the Best architects are those that
has worked their way up from technicians that draw construction
details.
They don't train draughtsmen like they use too.
A good draughtsman, and those listed above create the 3D model in
their heads from the 2D details (if detailed correctly in the first
place)
Finding good draughtsmen is hard as an employer!
Many employers don't value these people enough! or pay them enough.
In the UK they don't teach TD (Technical Drawing) anymore in schools
and drawing is not covered at ONC HND level like it use to be.
University Grads may have picked up some CAD experiance from their
studies, however this is not covered as a given subject.
Nearest thing in the uk to what you guys are talking about is a city &
guilds course in AutoCAD, I have seen the wonderful 3D windmill the
guy has drawn, but he can't pass my 3Minute test and has no
understanding on how bricks are bonded, and about general
construction, thus he goes to show another prospective employer his
wonderful 3D windmill.
Rant over time to get ready for work
cadalot
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Finally, someone who isn't being a jerk and a realist. |
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Leon wrote:
| Quote: |
"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:bb03d$436294fe$4fce80f$13539@DIALUPUSA.NET...
SNIP
How immature.
Ah, you are working with a teenagers mentality. "How Immature" is a
favorite amoung teenagers.
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Smart Jerk. |
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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| FUCK DRAFTING! |
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zion9
Guest
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Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Cliff wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:28:29 -0400, "zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote:
I guess the engineers want to do it all him or herself or
something. :-P
It's often much faster & more accurate.
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Your smart remarks have proved my points. DRAFTING IS A DEAD FIELD!
Sadly, the only side that will ever be heard will be the
Engineer/Architect's side.
Before you make any more remarks about "dumb Drafting"; remember, you
are only as good as your trainer.
You are implying that all Drafters who cant meet your expectations --
WITH NO TRAINING IN ENGINNERING DESIGN (Not provided by schools or
Engineering/Architect firms) -- are stupid.
You are STUPID by expecting someone to know something without showing
or explaining it to them.
You are STUPID for expecting someone to pull monkeys out of his arse.
The schools do not prepare you and the Architects/Engineers DO NOT CARE.
Do you want to be a Drafter after hearing comments from these jerks?
Go for it and sign up for the abuse! You will be right back at Taco
Bell after you graduate from your Drafting course -- I promise.
Fuck Drafting. |
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zion9
Guest
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Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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LoneGunman wrote:
| Quote: | Dunno what to tell ya man... I started out on a drafting board, with
a 2 year degree in Mechanical Technology. I progressed from the board
to the computer, and am now titled as "senior designer". I design
parts, from engineers direction, they tell me the requirements, I
model the part(s).
We still have cad detailers, those that haven't developed the modeling
skills yet, or just don't have the designer knack. They take my
models, and detail them.
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Thank you for your polite reply. :-) |
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Cliff
Guest
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Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 08:22:01 -0500, "Michael Bulatovich"
<Please@dont.try> wrote:
| Quote: | How about meeting those deadlines? ; )
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Read twice max .... <G>.
--
Cliff |
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zion9
Guest
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Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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CW wrote:
| Quote: | Waa, Waaa, Waa.
"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:c9ee9$4362963d$4fce80f$13594@DIALUPUSA.NET...
I haven't had many good experiences with new drafters coming out
of school. So far we've gone thru 6 over the last 2 years.
Someone trained you. You have experience. New Drafters are not
given chances like you had in the past.
What are engineers/architects going to do when all of the old school
"trained" Drafters die?
You can't gain experience unless you are trained and allowed to
acquire experience.
When will the logic of these concepts ever compute with today's
companies?
Looks like the engineer will be getting to do ALL of the CAD work.
;-)
Then they will be moaning and groaning and asking why they are stuck
working such long hours.
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JERK! |
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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CW wrote:
| Quote: |
"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:bb03d$436294fe$4fce80f$13539@DIALUPUSA.NET...
I am a "professional" and my title is "Drafter" or "CAD Operator".
I am not just another burger flipper in your engineering firm. I
have a degree if you can even give me enough respect to acknowledge
that fact.
Clue: having a degree in ANYTHING does not make you an expert or even
qualified for a job. It makes you a qualified beginner. It shows that
you have had instruction in the basics and are now ready to learn in
the workplace.
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Good luck on getting training (learning)! Jerk. |
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Michael Bulatovich wrote:
| Quote: | How about meeting those deadlines? ; )
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How about better planning! |
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Michael Bulatovich wrote:
| Quote: | No, just a bunch of guys who draw lines for a living.
"Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
news:krc5m1h7rj10fpk5r7n2peu2c5g4ltesba@4ax.com...
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:41:16 -0400, "Michael Bulatovich"
Please@dont.try> wrote:
These guys were cad jockeys.
IOW "experts"?
--
Cliff
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JERK! |
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Longshot wrote:
| Quote: |
"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:ef82$43629b63$4fce80f$13694@DIALUPUSA.NET...
Longshot wrote:
education is not a substitute for common sense or
taking pride in your work.
I suspect that was meant to be an insult.
I did take pride in my work and was on the honor role at my
Technical College. Guess What? Still not good enough for them!
great.. it doesnt mean you have a mechanical aptitude or any sense at
all, it means you have good study habits & thats about it. either you
cant cut it or you live in an area where there just arent any jobs.
you;d have to relocate to figure out which it is. of course you know
that because you are so smart. oh but wait. you have no job.. perhaps
you are not as smart as you think.
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You are a jerk and I do have a job. |
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Chips
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Get a McJob.
"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:34c44$435fedb9$4fced8a$25956@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | If you are thinking about going to school for a Drafting Degree then
RUN!
Drafters draw blueprints and engineers design them. The current
problem is that somehow Drafting and Designing have become synonymous
terms. It used to be that a Drafter would draw blueprints from an
engineer's/architect's verbal instructions and/or the
engineer's/architect's sketches. Now the Drafter is supposed to know
what took an engineer/architect 4+ years to learn. If the Drafter
cannot "pick it up" what took the engineers/architects 4+ years to
learn then they throw you out the back door on your face in the gravel.
Also, Engineers or Architects are refusing to take time to train
Drafters. They say that they don't have time or go grab a book off of
the shelf and figure it out.
A two-year Associate Degree in Drafting WILL NOT prepare you to be an
engineer and do an engineer's job!
I have not designed (like an engineer) commercial buildings or other
engineering projects, but I did draw them by verbal instruction,
engineering sketches and blueprints.
My Computer Aided Drafting degree, basically, prepared me to draw
blueprints using AutoCAD software. Unfortunately, the local Drafting
courses in Kentucky, the Two-Year Drafting programs, do not prepare you
to do engineering design work (what engineers due with a 4+ year
degree).
Typically, all students come out ready to draw blueprints, as Drafters
have always done in the past, but not design without a Bachelors degree
like an engineer is trained to do.
Today, for the modern Drafter, it is turning into the old catch 22
you-need-experience situation. No one has time or is willing to train
yet they demand experience. Furthermore, if you can't "pick up" what
took engineers four years to learn in a year or; in most cases, thirty
days or less then they will lay you off and insult you by saying you
couldn't catch on fast enough. So what is the Drafter left to do?
A downside for the engineer in today's modern engineering office is
that they are expected to spend all of their time drafting while they
could, more productively, spend their time dealing with public
relations and engineering design. Also, most architects and engineers
that I have spoken with have a weak background in CAD and take only a
couple of classes in Drafting during their college education.
Lastly, as stated in my objective, I am looking for a company who is
flexible and willing to train for non-Drafting engineer Design tasks.
The former title for my past experience would be a "CAD
Detailer/Drafter". I have drawn blueprints, as I was prepared to do by
my two-year Associate Degree, but I have not "designed" as one who is
"trained" by an architectural or engineering firm.
Currently, I have been out of a Drafting position for over 2 years
because engineering firms have become too "picky" and want something
for nothing. I guess it time for me to move on and realize that
Drafting is a dead field.
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