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zion9
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Longshot wrote:
| Quote: | education is not a substitute for common sense or
taking pride in your work.
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I suspect that was meant to be an insult.
I did take pride in my work and was on the honor role at my Technical
College. Guess What? Still not good enough for them!
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CW
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Waa, Waaa, Waa.
"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:c9ee9$4362963d$4fce80f$13594@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | I haven't had many good experiences with new drafters coming out of
school. So far we've gone thru 6 over the last 2 years.
Someone trained you. You have experience. New Drafters are not given
chances like you had in the past.
What are engineers/architects going to do when all of the old school
"trained" Drafters die?
You can't gain experience unless you are trained and allowed to acquire
experience.
When will the logic of these concepts ever compute with today's
companies?
Looks like the engineer will be getting to do ALL of the CAD work. ;-)
Then they will be moaning and groaning and asking why they are stuck
working such long hours. |
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CW
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:bb03d$436294fe$4fce80f$13539@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | I am a "professional" and my title is "Drafter" or "CAD Operator". I
am not just another burger flipper in your engineering firm. I have a
degree if you can even give me enough respect to acknowledge that fact.
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Clue: having a degree in ANYTHING does not make you an expert or even
qualified for a job. It makes you a qualified beginner. It shows that you
have had instruction in the basics and are now ready to learn in the
workplace.
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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SimonLW wrote:
| Quote: | "Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:zLT7f.7044$ki7.409544@news20.bellglobal.com...
Same here in Canada. I don't know the OP at all, and I don't know
what he hopes to gain by his post. I don't know anything about him,
but if the days of "dumb drafting" are over you won't see me shed a
tear.
I once worked in an office of mostly community college cad jockeys,
and their attitude towards their work was deplorable. The only
thing they cared about were their paychecks, beer, pot, sex, and
their cars. One guy handed me a supposedly finished set of plans
for a house and there was an entire of corner of the house which
had no means of structural support. When I asked him how he could
take a set of drawings as far as he did without a clue about how it
stood up, he said he couldn't figure that part out, so he just
moved on.
I hope these "cad jockeys" aren't expected to design structural
support. That's the job of the structural engineer.
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Makes you feel REAL SAFE when standing in a building designed by a
Drafter. ;-P |
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Michael Bulatovich
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:48 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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No, just a bunch of guys who draw lines for a living.
"Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
news:krc5m1h7rj10fpk5r7n2peu2c5g4ltesba@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:41:16 -0400, "Michael Bulatovich"
Please@dont.try> wrote:
These guys were cad jockeys.
IOW "experts"?
--
Cliff |
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LoneGunman
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Dunno what to tell ya man... I started out on a drafting board, with
a 2 year degree in Mechanical Technology. I progressed from the board
to the computer, and am now titled as "senior designer". I design
parts, from engineers direction, they tell me the requirements, I
model the part(s).
We still have cad detailers, those that haven't developed the modeling
skills yet, or just don't have the designer knack. They take my
models, and detail them. |
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Longshot
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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you have me mistaken for someone else i have been 3d for over 10 years
"CW" <s@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:U1w8f.3087$yX2.196@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Not to long ago, you were arguing against 3D. Finally made the change,
huh?
"Longshot" <Longshot@aol.com> wrote in message
news:VTo8f.281682$084.102433@attbi_s22...
a 3d model can be changed in one view & the other views are
automatically
completed. a 2d requires separate changes in multiple views & much more
room
for error.
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Longshot
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:ef82$43629b63$4fce80f$13694@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | Longshot wrote:
education is not a substitute for common sense or
taking pride in your work.
I suspect that was meant to be an insult.
I did take pride in my work and was on the honor role at my Technical
College. Guess What? Still not good enough for them!
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great.. it doesnt mean you have a mechanical aptitude or any sense at all,
it means you have good study habits & thats about it. either you cant cut it
or you live in an area where there just arent any jobs. you;d have to
relocate to figure out which it is. of course you know that because you are
so smart. oh but wait. you have no job.. perhaps you are not as smart as you
think. |
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CW
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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I remember now. Sheet metal duct work. Your resistance was to upgrading to
more productive and capable software.
"Longshot" <Longshot@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dTI8f.523167$xm3.303687@attbi_s21...
| Quote: | you have me mistaken for someone else i have been 3d for over 10 years
"CW" <s@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:U1w8f.3087$yX2.196@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Not to long ago, you were arguing against 3D. Finally made the change,
huh?
"Longshot" <Longshot@aol.com> wrote in message
news:VTo8f.281682$084.102433@attbi_s22...
a 3d model can be changed in one view & the other views are
automatically
completed. a 2d requires separate changes in multiple views & much
more
room
for error.
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longshot
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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"CW" <s@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:v2P8f.3218$Rl1.3129@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | I remember now. Sheet metal duct work. Your resistance was to upgrading to
more productive and capable software.
right.. we bought a single floating solid works license this past week. i |
haven't had a chance to test drive it yet. we had an inventor demo & i wasnt
impressed with it. I think the acad will always be the primary software for
plant layouts nut the solid works will be great for smaller tricky
projects.. we are building some funky oil tanks for custom choppers that
require minimal welds & there are many variations of the same tank.. this is
exactly where the software will be huge. :) |
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Leon
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:bb03d$436294fe$4fce80f$13539@DIALUPUSA.NET...
SNIP
Ah, you are working with a teenagers mentality. "How Immature" is a
favorite amoung teenagers. |
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cadalot
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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A very interesting thread IMHO (As a draughtsman who became an
Engineer by part time study ONC HND (Now called BTEC) and a 4 year
Part time day and evening Honours Degree in Civil Engineering (with
Advanced Structures as my option) whilst working.
Until the site agent, chippy, brick layer, plumber, roofer and others
carry around something to view 3D models on they are for Architects
and clients on schemes that warrent the investment in time and money
to produce them.
Mind you seeing the crap that 60% of Architects create in 2D do we
really want them to produce this in yet another dimension ?
Before I get flamed some of best friend are Architects and so are some
of my worst nightmears, and IMHO the Best architects are those that
has worked their way up from technicians that draw construction
details.
They don't train draughtsmen like they use too.
A good draughtsman, and those listed above create the 3D model in
their heads from the 2D details (if detailed correctly in the first
place)
Finding good draughtsmen is hard as an employer!
Many employers don't value these people enough! or pay them enough.
In the UK they don't teach TD (Technical Drawing) anymore in schools
and drawing is not covered at ONC HND level like it use to be.
University Grads may have picked up some CAD experiance from their
studies, however this is not covered as a given subject.
Nearest thing in the uk to what you guys are talking about is a city &
guilds course in AutoCAD, I have seen the wonderful 3D windmill the
guy has drawn, but he can't pass my 3Minute test and has no
understanding on how bricks are bonded, and about general
construction, thus he goes to show another prospective employer his
wonderful 3D windmill.
Rant over time to get ready for work
cadalot |
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Troppo
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:23 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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cadalot <alan@killspam.co.uk> wrote in
news:pagbm1ltt3j9jilg9ip6lhfu2fkc5rvp7b@4ax.com:
| Quote: | A very interesting thread IMHO
Ditto |
(As a draughtsman who became an
| Quote: |
[..] 3D models for Architects on schemes that warrent the investment in
time and money to produce them.
Mind you seeing the crap that 60% of Architects create in 2D do we
really want them to produce this in yet another dimension ?
One of my sons is very competent in 3D AutoCAD, and was recently asked to |
work on an architectural drawing, to produce renderings and walk-throughs
etc. Oops - the roof turned out to be on the same level as the ground
floor ... he ended up starting again from scratch using the engineering
drawings.
In his view, the best device for walk-thoughs is the scene developer for
Quake. Ideal. No more walking through walls. One drawback is you must
have at least one monster (real estate agent) and one weapon (clipboard).
You can shoot the real estate agent with the clipboard - but you don't
tell the client that ...
| Quote: |
Before I get flamed some of best friend are Architects and so are some
of my worst nightmears, and IMHO the Best architects are those that
has worked their way up from technicians that draw construction
details.
They don't train draughtsmen like they use too.
A good draughtsman, and those listed above create the 3D model in
their heads from the 2D details (if detailed correctly in the first
place)
Finding good draughtsmen is hard as an employer!
Many employers don't value these people enough! or pay them enough.
In the UK they don't teach TD (Technical Drawing) anymore in schools
and drawing is not covered at ONC HND level like it use to be.
University Grads may have picked up some CAD experiance from their
studies, however this is not covered as a given subject.
Nearest thing in the uk to what you guys are talking about is a city &
guilds course in AutoCAD, I have seen the wonderful 3D windmill the
guy has drawn, but he can't pass my 3Minute test and has no
understanding on how bricks are bonded, and about general
construction, thus he goes to show another prospective employer his
wonderful 3D windmill.
My son produces things like a 3D nautilus shell, 3D fish. Eventually he |
ran into someone who was racking their brains trying to find someone who
could draw a self-extracting mining drill - large double helix device.
Things began to look up after that. He had breezed through the CAD course
in the Australian TAFE system, but was a bit daunted at the prospect of
doing a 4 year evening course in basic construction, until an employer
suggested not to bother, just get out there and do the site surveys,
measure-up, and they would find the errors ... |
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The-trooper
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:19:52 +0000, cadalot <alan@killspam.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: | Nearest thing in the uk to what you guys are talking about is a city &
guilds course in AutoCAD, I have seen the wonderful 3D windmill the
guy has drawn, but he can't pass my 3Minute test and has no
understanding on how bricks are bonded
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What is that 3Minute test? :) |
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cadalot
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Get the guy to produce the drawing and see how he does it and how
accurate he is. If he takes more than 3minutes forget it.
I had one guy who after 20-25 minutes I just said sorry and showed him
the door.
http://www.cadalot.co.uk/how_to_draw/3mintest.pdf
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:21:12 +0100, The-trooper
<haha.the-trooper@net.hr.hehe> wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:19:52 +0000, cadalot <alan@killspam.co.uk
wrote:
Nearest thing in the uk to what you guys are talking about is a city &
guilds course in AutoCAD, I have seen the wonderful 3D windmill the
guy has drawn, but he can't pass my 3Minute test and has no
understanding on how bricks are bonded
What is that 3Minute test? :) |
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