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zion9
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Michael Bulatovich wrote:
| Quote: | Same here in Canada. I don't know the OP at all, and I don't know
what he hopes to gain by his post. I don't know anything about him,
but if the days of "dumb drafting" are over you won't see me shed a
tear.
I once worked in an office of mostly community college cad jockeys,
and their attitude towards their work was deplorable. The only thing
they cared about were their paychecks, beer, pot, sex, and their
cars. One guy handed me a supposedly finished set of plans for a
house and there was an entire of corner of the house which had no
means of structural support. When I asked him how he could take a set
of drawings as far as he did without a clue about how it stood up, he
said he couldn't figure that part out, so he just moved on.
Elsewhere, I have had the honor of working with "mere" draftsman who
elevated their work to the level of a fine craft, and they taught me
a lot that I still carry around today. These guys don't have to look
for work. Work comes looking for them.
|
For your information: I am drug free and have no criminal record.
If you are worried about potheads then start having drug tests.
And what someone does in his or her personal life is none of your
business as long as it is within the laws of the land.
Unless you’re an intolerant religious or sports fanatic who expects
everyone to be exactly like you.
It is about whether or not an employee can do the job or not.
Remember: Equal Opportunity Employer
Wait, that is a myth. ;-)
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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SimonLW wrote:
| Quote: | "Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:zLT7f.7044$ki7.409544@news20.bellglobal.com...
Same here in Canada. I don't know the OP at all, and I don't know
what he hopes to gain by his post. I don't know anything about him,
but if the days of "dumb drafting" are over you won't see me shed a
tear.
I once worked in an office of mostly community college cad jockeys,
and their attitude towards their work was deplorable. The only
thing they cared about were their paychecks, beer, pot, sex, and
their cars. One guy handed me a supposedly finished set of plans
for a house and there was an entire of corner of the house which
had no means of structural support. When I asked him how he could
take a set of drawings as far as he did without a clue about how it
stood up, he said he couldn't figure that part out, so he just
moved on.
I hope these "cad jockeys" aren't expected to design structural
support. That's the job of the structural engineer.
Elsewhere, I have had the honor of working with "mere" draftsman
who elevated their work to the level of a fine craft, and they
taught me a lot that I still carry around today. These guys don't
have to look for work. Work comes looking for them.
--
We generate models in 3D. With 3D "walkthrough" software, we can
visualize the model. We can even give a "published" version of the
model (not the DWG) to the client with the 3D viewer and they can
visualize what their plant will look like. The response was
tremendous when we first started doing this.
What I'm getting at, is men and women looking to enter the drafting
trades should consider honing their 3D skills. We have a hard time
finding people who 3D well!
-S
|
I notice that you use the pejorative term "cad jockeys".
I am a “professional” and my title is "Drafter" or "CAD Operator". I
am not just another burger flipper in your engineering firm. I have a
degree if you can even give me enough respect to acknowledge that fact.
I call you an "engineer" and "Sir". Not a big "engineer jerk" or
"asshole architect".
This is another issue I have seen in all engineering offices.
LACK OF RESPECT
You gripe about wanting a team environment but don’t have enough
respect to call someone by their appropriate title.
How immature.
I am a Drafter not a cad jockey.
Now quit pointing fingers and see if you’re the one who has the problem. |
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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| Quote: | I haven't had many good experiences with new drafters coming out of
school. So far we've gone thru 6 over the last 2 years.
|
Someone trained you. You have experience. New Drafters are not given
chances like you had in the past.
What are engineers/architects going to do when all of the old school
"trained" Drafters die?
You can’t gain experience unless you are trained and allowed to acquire
experience.
When will the logic of these concepts ever compute with today's
companies?
Looks like the engineer will be getting to do ALL of the CAD work. ;-)
Then they will be moaning and groaning and asking why they are stuck
working such long hours.
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CW
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:ec7d2$43629330$4fce80f$13501@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | Michael Bulatovich wrote:
It is about whether or not an employee can do the job or not.
|
It would seem that you have proven that you can't. |
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CW
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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Thought confirmed. This is a rant from someone who couldn't cut it.
"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:1b765$436290cd$4fce80f$13408@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | zion9 wrote:
If you are thinking about going to school for a Drafting Degree then
RUN! |
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zion9
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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zion9 wrote:
| Quote: | I haven't had many good experiences with new drafters coming out of
school. So far we've gone thru 6 over the last 2 years.
Someone trained you. You have experience. New Drafters are not given
chances like you had in the past.
What are engineers/architects going to do when all of the old school
"trained" Drafters die?
You can’t gain experience unless you are trained and allowed to
acquire experience.
When will the logic of these concepts ever compute with today's
companies?
Looks like the engineer will be getting to do ALL of the CAD work.
;-)
Then they will be moaning and groaning and asking why they are stuck
working such long hours.
|
Often a company's turnover reflects a company's attitude towards its
employees.
Not implying that you are, but I have learned one thing working for a
know-it-all-jerk -- nothing you do is ever good enough.
If you cant "pick it up" in less than 90 days then they toss you out
the back door.
Usually, they are the one's who hold you back by expecting you to read
their minds.
Communication is everything. Yes, even for the glorious engineer who
knows all. |
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Michael Bulatovich
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:1b765$436290cd$4fce80f$13408@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | I asked one Architect, "What type of education would it take to have me
prepared enough to work for your company?"
He said, "I don't know, but all I know is that we need a designer and
we don't have time to train you."
Wow! If he didn't know then who does?
|
What he's telling you is that the degree doesn't matter. The intelligence
does. One of the best designers I've worked for has a technologist's diploma
from a technical school. He's making a whack of money. No degree is no meal
ticket. |
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Michael Bulatovich
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:ec7d2$43629330$4fce80f$13501@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | For your information: I am drug free and have no criminal record.
I never said anything different. |
| Quote: | If you are worried about potheads then start having drug tests.
I wouldn't bother with that. If a guy gets high at home, |
but is scrupulous at work I could care less. If a guy's
life target is a joint and a bottle of beer, I wouldn't hire him.
He's a loser, and bad things happen to people who keep losers around.
| Quote: | And what someone does in his or her personal life is none of your
business as long as it is within the laws of the land.
Unless you're an intolerant religious or sports fanatic who expects
everyone to be exactly like you.
Niether. I expect professionals to be zealous, though. |
| Quote: | It is about whether or not an employee can do the job or not.
It's about Pride. |
| Quote: | Remember: Equal Opportunity Employer
That's something else again. |
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Cliff
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:57:49 -0400, "zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote:
| Quote: | They always expect more than what my degree prepared me for
|
Tough.
A "degree" is not a union card to be stupid (one
could argue this about some from trade schools).
It's just an intoduction to learning, usually.
You have to do almost all of it on your own from there.
How large is your library on the subject? NOT the CAD,
it's just a tool, like a pencil. How much of it have you read &
understood?
Where are you going from here?
WHY?
--
Cliff |
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Cliff
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:28:29 -0400, "zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I guess the engineers want to do it all him or herself or something. :-P
|
It's often much faster & more accurate.
--
Cliff |
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Cliff
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:15:42 -0400, "zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I am a Drafter not a cad jockey.
|
You could be a detailer I suppose ....
--
Cliff |
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Cliff
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:41:16 -0400, "Michael Bulatovich"
<Please@dont.try> wrote:
| Quote: | These guys were cad jockeys.
|
IOW "experts"?
--
Cliff |
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Cliff
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:35:19 -0400, "zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Often a company's turnover reflects a company's attitude towards its
employees.
|
More likely the job was exported to India or China for the tax
credits.
Or just died as we are now so much more productive & profitable
per Enron's accountants.
--
Cliff |
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Cliff
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:42:08 GMT, Modat22 <modat22@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I just started building a little CNC wood router to do some wood
carvings and look forward to seeing some 3D acad creations come to
life in my work shop.
|
You want to join rec.crafts.metalworking & alt.machines.cnc
then I expect.
WARNING: AMC may have a few trolls & is actually full of
professionals using a very wide variety of systems, machines,
etc. A thick skin (or sense of humor) is advised <G>.
HTH
--
Cliff |
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Michael Bulatovich
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Dead Career - Drafting |
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"zion9" <zion9@blah.com> wrote in message
news:bb03d$436294fe$4fce80f$13539@DIALUPUSA.NET...
| Quote: | I notice that you use the pejorative term "cad jockeys".
I am a "professional" and my title is "Drafter" or "CAD Operator". I
am not just another burger flipper in your engineering firm. I have a
degree if you can even give me enough respect to acknowledge that fact.
I call you an "engineer" and "Sir". Not a big "engineer jerk" or
"asshole architect".
This is another issue I have seen in all engineering offices.
LACK OF RESPECT
You gripe about wanting a team environment but don't have enough
respect to call someone by their appropriate title.
How immature.
I am a Drafter not a cad jockey.
Now quit pointing fingers and see if you're the one who has the problem.
|
I used pejorative language in reference to people who I think deserve it. I
did not call you anything.
You may be a perfectly professional guy. These guys were cad jockeys. |
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